Figure skates for toddler

[skatemom189]

My daughter is 2 years 7 months old and weighs 31 lbs.  She has been wearing size 8 Jackson Softskate Plus (the white ones with the colored lining) for the last year and is now outgrowing them, and her coaches have recommended that she get a pair of "real" figure skates.  She is currently enrolled in a Snowplow Sam 1/2 group class (her fun "play" class), a Snowplow Sam 2 group class, and has started private lessons once a week.  She has passed all the Snowplow 2 elements, can do most everything for the Snowplow 3 level (can only do 5 swizzles in a row, rather than 6-8 but can pass everything else in level 3), and can do some of the stuff from Basic 2 & 3 (is learning stroking with her private coach, and can do a 3 revolution two foot spin).  She is being kept in the Snowplow 2 group classes because of her young age; the Snowplow 3 kids are all 4.5 and 5 years old and they don't feel it is safe for her to be with them, hence the private lessons (and it might make the kids feel bad to see a "baby" do things that they can't; she is too young to know the difference).  I'm worried that any of the real figure skates are going to be too stiff.

She can't fit into a Reidell boot because they start at size 9 but their size 9 is bigger than Jackson's size 9 (her foot is tiny and it would really make a difference).  It would seem that my options are the Jackson Glacier, Mystique, or Artiste.  I read on some website that the Glaciers offer less support than the Softskates, so I wasn't really considering them (but is that true?).  Is the Mystique going to be too stiff?  Her Softskates are (I think?) the perfect stiffness; her ankles are totally supported and are always held verticle | | but she can easily do a dip while gliding to grab her toes.  The Mystique's blade appears to be the same as that of the Softskate, with the tiny toepicks up and out of the way, which is what she needs.  I figure that the Artiste would probably both be too stiff and the blade too advanced for her until her stroking is solid and she can do front crossovers.  But do you think the Mystique would be too stiff and we should either put her in the Glacier (good enough skate for someone who is serious?) or keep her in the Softskate (which the coaches have said are too bulky.  But we have seen 5-8 year old girls in the mid-Basic levels in those skates..).

All the other toddlers at our rink wear rentals, but I believe a big part of the reason she has progressed fast is because she has had her own skates.  And, we have saved sooo much money over the last year by spending $50 on her own skates!  Can anyone give me any advice?  Our local skate shop can fit the skates (not there's much to fit as there is only one size choice and maker) but says we need to make the call with how stiff, because they just don't have much experience with toddlers.  Thanks very much for your help!

[Sk8tmum]

Mystique and Artiste are WAYYYYYYYY too stiff for your toddler.  She'll never bend them, and she will end up not getting a good knee bend (which seems to persist in kids who have been put in stiff boots at a young age).

Have you gone in and tried on a Riedell?  Their sizes don't run "true" to shoe sizes at all, and you should try them on; they have "real" ice skates that go down to very light, very flexible boots and they're well priced.

Otherwise, the Glacier is your only real option ... the GAM Fantasique is stiffer than the Glacier is.  Me, I would keep her in the Softskate .. you're better in the boot that is working for her, and, no, they're not pretty, but, they won't last long anyways; a toddler will outgrow skates very quickly.

IF it makes you feel better my DD had Glaciers, and when they were outgrown, our coach took them for her family; she's a top competitive coach, and liked that the Glacier had a decent support, weren't stiff, and the blades were just fine for starting skaters. My DD also was a tiny tiny ... we had size 6 Glaciers, actually!

[sarahspins]

Riedell definitely comes smaller than 9 - I've seen lots of tots wearing some teenie tiny skates.  I am pretty sure they go down to a size 6, which is really VERY small.

That said, at her size/level the soft skates are really just fine - I've seen kids make it all the way through basic skills in them, only moving up to "real" skates once they are working on freeskate levels.  For a small skater that is just fine - older/bigger skaters will have trouble with the lack of support, but that won't be a problem for a toddler at any level.

[skatemom189]

The teenie tiny Riedells are the model 21 (made down to size 6 toddler), which I assumed would be much too stiff.  The shop never mentioned them.  The ones below that (the 10, 15, the 13 soft figure) start at size 9 which is too big (according to our pro shop - she tried the 15 on and they said too big and too stiff).  Yes, that makes no sense.  Why make skates that are much too stiff for the size skater that your are trying to sell to?  That's why I thought the Mystique would be a good pick.  I too thought that sticking with the softskates for a while would be good, but the coaches think she should have real skates, and I only want to put her in something that is quality, but obviously an appropriate match for her level and size.  It's just ridiculous!  Jackson makes mystique and artiste down to size 8 toddler, but what you are saying is that a toddler couldn't wear them!  I only want her to have something good and nice.  I've read this forum a bit in the last days and there are many comments deriding "rec skates" (like the Glacier).  Riedell doesn't help AT ALL because they don't give any empirical information about how stiff their different boots are.  The pro shop threw up their hands and said I should decide because they didn't want to take responsibility if the skates were too stiff.  I feel totally in the middle and don't know who's advice to trust.  I worry that if I make the wrong choice she will get hurt.  I'm totally frustrated now and don't know what to do.   

[FigureSpins]

Riedell definitely comes smaller than 9 - I've seen lots of tots wearing some teenie tiny skates.  I am pretty sure they go down to a size 6, which is really VERY small.

I haven't seen many of them, but Riedell has the 21 RS from 6-13 for tots.  That's the equivalent of a Jackson Artiste or Classique, though, very stiff compared to a soft skate.  The price is a little steep: $120/pair.  I suspect the OP's DD will outgrow those skate models before she breaks them in, unless she gets a used pair.  (That's a an option to consider.)  It's a little high-end for someone who isn't doing crossovers yet, no.

IMO, the Glacier is fine for low-level tots; older (or heavy/tall) skaters need more support than it provides.  The Glacier is affordable and the support is fine for a toddler up through Basic 4-5.  (Probably in 6-8 mos at this rate, given how much time she spends on the ice.)  At that point, she'll have to start skating on one foot and doing jumps, so a more supportive skate with a better blade will be needed anyway.  Given how quickly kids that age grow, she probably won't get a year out of the next pair, anyway. 

[nicklaszlo]

I've read this forum a bit in the last days and there are many comments deriding "rec skates"

That stuff does not apply to the skater you have right now.  But in a few years it will.

[sarahspins]

Mystiques (or Artistes) would be much much too stiff.. I actually had a pair of mystiques in a toddler 8 a few years ago thinking my youngest could wear them but they were WAY too stiff.  I ended up selling them and my kid never skated in them.  They may be rated a stiffness of 15, but on very tiny skates meant for someone who only weighs 30lbs, that is really way too stiff - it's more appropriate for the average 50-60lb 5-7 year old.  Glaciers would be fine... and I would expect that she'd outgrow those before she was ready for "more" skate, at which point you can re-evaluate her needs.  Once she is a bit bigger and likely a stronger skater getting a stiffer boot for her size won't present the same problems it would now.

There is really nothing wrong with rec skates in the right circumstances.. for toddlers they are fine as long as they're not super cheap big box skates (like the lake placid ones or any skate made from a single layer of vinyl) but anything from a major skate maker (like Riedell or Jackson) is probably going to be fine.  They have equivalent blades as low level figure skates, the difference is that the upper materials usually will NOT hold up well to regular skating with a bigger skater (say age 6+ and 50lbs+).  That is not an issue that you will have with a toddler.

However, considering size, the difference in foot length for the sizing between Jackson and Riedell works out to about 1/8" at a size 9.. IMO that's not enough to worry about if you could find some of the lower level Reidells that weren't as stiff, and at her size buying skates one size too big isn't going to be a problem for very long - she's likely to grow into them faster than she'll even break them in. 

[Sk8tmum]

See if you can get the 121's in used; kids outgrow them so fast.

We ended up in the 121's due to the tiny size back in the day, and yes, they are too stiff for the level your kid is at (my DD was in Size 8s at age 7, and was in Canskate stage 5 ...).  They worked for us AFTER our skate guy beat the living daylights out of them; he used the punch, he used a hammer, he worked in the ankles by flexing them until they were bendable. Then, we put them on at home and she did deep knee bends (however, a 7 year old ballerina is more likely to be compliant with doing that than maybe a toddler?).  After they were brutalized, they worked great.  She could bend them noooo problem!

There also used to be a 117 which came in small sizes; maybe see if you can hunt these down? There discontinued not too long ago.

I have seen more miserable little girls in Artistes and Classiques.  They skate like penguins and get totally frustrated with their inability to stroke and do turns.

Seriously, stick with the Glaciers if the coaches are insistent (but, remember, you get a vote too!).  They are good little skates.  I'd ask the coaches what their objections are to the SoftSkate.  Also - well - the SoftSkates are comfy.  If your kid is picky at all about footwear, she may find the "real skates" uncomfortable, and you want her to enjoy things at this stage.

[skatemom189]

Thank you all.  I'm going to take her back to the shop and purchase the Glaciers.  I very much want to avoid putting her into something that is too stiff.  I also want to do what the coaches say she needs and get her out of the Soft Skates.  They say the softskates are too bulky and come too thick high up on her little legs and that regular skates will change both those things.  They say the skates are holding her back and making it difficult for her to learn stroking; it's a size thing because she's so little; the support level and weight of the skates is just right.  I also think they are trying to think about what she will learn over the next year, which is how long we expect them to last, and if they will be appropriate in 6 months.  I don't care about moving her up in skate level/stiffness before she outgrows them, but certainly it would be better/less wasteful if we didn't do that.

I wish there was a high quality product available for very young skaters, but I do understand that there is little market for such a skate, as most people try to spend as little as possible and not try to get high quality for little ones.  I still don't understand why companies make tiny skates that are much too stiff for the size of person that would fit into them (Reidell 21 in size 6 toddler - 5 inches long!).  There is no one to buy the product they are trying to sell.  Unless they intentionally want to put kids in skates that are wrong for them, and that would just kill off their market because the kids would quit.

Thank you so much for your advice!  One more question - should I get the leather or vinyl Glaciers?  (price is not an issue; comfort and skatability are what matter).

[sarahspins]

I'd opt for the leather version.. I think in addition to leather uppers they also have slightly better quality blades (more durable finish, mainly).

[hopskipjump]

My friend bought custom Harlicks for her tot skater.  You can get high level skates that are tiny.

[Sk8tmum]

I wish there was a high quality product available for very young skaters, but I do understand that there is little market for such a skate, as most people try to spend as little as possible and not try to get high quality for little ones.  I still don't understand why companies make tiny skates that are much too stiff for the size of person that would fit into them (Reidell 21 in size 6 toddler - 5 inches long!).  There is no one to buy the product they are trying to sell.  Unless they intentionally want to put kids in skates that are wrong for them, and that would just kill off their market because the kids would quit.

A few musings. First, the Mystique and the Classique have sold very well for years, and continue to do so.  There are some "theories" from some coaches that the sturdy ankle support helps little ones support themselves; these are the same coaches who are putting kids in too stiff boots later in life.  (off of soapbox).

Riedell makes the 121s for a reason:  many figure skaters are tiny, and they tend to have tiny feet.  My DD was in 8s at age 7, as I mentioned; she only made it out of "toddler" sizes at age 10.  So, a 121 is a good boot for tiny feet if it's for someone intending on "really skating" as it's well enough designed to accomodate such a skater.  As the Asian market grows in skating, at least in our area, and as I've seen elsewhere, the need for tiny skates is growing ... as apparently the Asian female skaters seem to have smaller feet.  So, the 121 is a good addition to the Riedell line. Also, there is the heavier and more powerfully built young child who needs more support; young gymnasts and ballet dancers are often able to bend a stiffer skate than the average as they have powerful legs. Thus, Riedell is keeping one skate with a wide size range to help accomodate the widely disparate group that are figure skaters. 

I won't discuss a parent buying custom Harlicks for a todder. Unless there is a medical reason .. why anyone would drop $800 boot only for a pair of skaters for a toddler baffles me ... then again, there are monkeys running around Toronto in shearling coats, so, I guess people can have unique ways to spend their money ... whatever!

[FigureSpins]

I'd opt for the leather version.. I think in addition to leather uppers they also have slightly better quality blades (more durable finish, mainly).

Leather can be stretched by the pro shop if the skate starts to get snug.  Buys the skater some comfort room while you arrange the next skates purchase.  (At some times during the year, skates are backordered by the manufacturers.)

[sarahspins]

Leather also allows any painful areas (like the ankles) to be punched out for comfort before they can do lasting damage to the feet.

[fortune8]

My daughter wasn't much older when she started skating and her very first pair of skates were Jackson Mystiques (size 9). She didn't find them too stiff at all. She managed them really well.

It was a little funny when she first switched over to the Classiques though (at 4 1/2) - she tripped over the toe pick quite a bit the first few days.