Moves in the Field tests - Adults in Utah get no breaks.. :(

[hopskipjump]

But you could only do that because you were test chair.  Skaters are discouraged from talking directly to judges at test sessions (because they would be mobbed).  We don't have local judges so we can't ask for feedback on non-test days.


That is really too bad.  For our tests, the judges join the skaters for breakfast and they give comments to the skaters.  They ALWAYS get a lecture about pushing with toe picks and how much they hate that sound.  It's a lot of fun and informative.  Our test people are from out of town (that is why everyone brings food for breakfast).  It makes the judges feel reachable and less scary to the kids.

[TreSk8sAZ]

That is really too bad.  For our tests, the judges join the skaters for breakfast and they give comments to the skaters.  They ALWAYS get a lecture about pushing with toe picks and how much they hate that sound.  It's a lot of fun and informative.  Our test people are from out of town (that is why everyone brings food for breakfast).  It makes the judges feel reachable and less scary to the kids.

But, your situation sounds very, very, very rare. I have not heard of that happening anywhere in the areas around me. Granted, we have all local judges. Generally, only if a critique is set up in advance can you speak to the judges beyond the marks and comments you receive. Some are more open to coaches requesting clarification, but certainly you do not simply get to talk to the judges for the most part.

However, by testing in front of the same judges over and over, you do get to learn what they prefer and what type of skating they prefer to see. There are certain judges that want to see certain things - these don't always line up. So you very well may have one judge who focuses on not stepping cross strokes, but another who focuses on if three turns are placed exactly on the top of the lobe. The problem can occur when you get these two judges on the same panel, they may each not pass you on different moves, meaning that you don't pass that day. So even if you know what they want to see, but each wants different things, it can be difficult.

This is seen throughout the country though. I don't know that one area is worse than others, I think it just depends on the day and the judges. I too have seen youtube videos of tests that I don't think should have ever been passed. But it makes me a better skater knowing my judges are tougher and passing really means something.

[blue111moon]

Things must be really strange in Utah.   

All you have to do to speak to a judge is ask.  Go or send your coach to the test chair and politely request to speak to the judges on your panel.  The test chair will go to those judges and ask them to come out and speak with you - and your coach.  Very few of them will refuse - educating skaters is part of their job.  You'll probably have to wait until the end of the test schedule but it could be worth it to have a one-on-one discussion about how you can improve.  If the test chair refuses to hear your request or if no one agrees to talk to you afterward, then I'll allow you grounds for complaint.

I don't get to talk to all these judges because I'm test chair.  I'm test chair because when I was skating and testing myself, I took the time to get to know the judges who came to our local competitions and tests.  I also went to seminars and schools and presentations to learn as much about the sport as I could.  Do I like every judge I know?  Of course not, but I do respect their collective knowledge and committement.  The vast majority of judges are very nice people who judge because they love the sport - why else would they volunteer to spend hours of their free time in cold rinks?  There's no glory in judging test sessions.  It really bothers me to see all judges lumped together into some giant amorphous multi-headed creature with only one brain. All judges are not the same any more than all kid skaters are the same or all Adult skaters are the same.

One word of warning, though, should you decide to go elsewhere to test - word gets around among test chairs about skaters who go shopping for "easier" panels and it's not a positive reputation to have. 

[twokidsskatemom]

I agree you don't need to be a test chair to talk to the judges. My skaters have tested with at least one judge she had, I don't know who she had that failed her. I know the judges in that area, just because if your skaters test or compete in a region long enough you see them a lot..  I  feel confortable in asking them after a test session or emailing them.  They don't bite lol

[severina]

This is an issue I have.  My coach has basically told me I won't be able to pass Silver moves because I can't expect to make up the difference of a bad move with my good moves (I have a labral tear in my hip- I'm not getting surgery just so I can do spirals.  That is pretty much the only thing in my life the tear affects). 

Yeah i'm dealing with a stress reaction in my femoral neck on my landing leg from too many doubles without my muscles being strong enough to do them.  The moment i started landing them, like an idiot, i didn't take my time and I decided i wanted to do 30 in one session, lol.  Thankfully I can still do moves and spins but I can't jump for a month and a half now.  All i have now is 100%  practice time for my moves, hehehe...

[jjane45]

Regarding arranging critiques with judges: Instead of asking the critique on the testing day when the test chair is likely burnt out, maybe try emailing the test chair beforehand, allowing more room to make arrangements. When I tested this summer, my judges knew in advance that I requested critique - they graciously agreed to it and took additional notes on the testing form. It was quite constructive

Skaters are discouraged from talking directly to judges at test sessions (because they would be mobbed).  We don't have local judges so we can't ask for feedback on non-test days.

Is it because the tests are so rare and the judges are "maxed out", not leaving them much time to stay afterwards?

[Clarice]

Is it because the tests are so rare and the judges are "maxed out", not leaving them much time to stay afterwards?

We only do tests in conjunction with competitions, since we need to bring all the judges in from out of town.  They often need a bit of a break between the end of the test session and the beginning of the competition.  We make arrangements for skaters to request critiques of their free skates, but don't generally do the same for tests.

[phoenix]

Severina, I think your idea to work with a dance coach is a good one, especially since you're getting comments about the cross strokes. In my region at least, moves judges tend to want those done the way a dancer would do them--and they're very picky about it. If you're stepping them, especially the back ones, they would most certainly fail here.

I'd love to see a video & will be happy to give you any input I can.

[JSM]

I find that cross strokes are definitely one of the things judges are particular on.  My coach works cross strokes with me nearly every lesson (and lesson time is hard to come by, so I know it's important!).  She tells me I'm too kicky and swing-y, and she's right.  I warm up with them every session, but I still have a long way to go.

I like that my coach has had a lot of students go through their moves, and so she knows in general what the judges like to see.  We are lucky that the local judges here are nice and very willing to talk to coaches about things students can improve on.

[Debbie S]

I have not tested Silver Moves (working on it), but my experience talking with other skaters - many whom have taken Silver Moves 4,5, or more times before passing is the same.   I also was a test chair for about 5 years so have seen many test scores including Adult Silver Moves.  If it looks "right" i.e. similar standard to the kids, it will get whatever the passing mark is.  If it doesn't, it will be scored below the passing mark.  There really is no break for adults. At least in my area, anyway.

That is what I have seen in my area, too. I have noticed that any 'break' given to adults is on power and quickness (like on the 8-step mohawk), but for the most part, they have an idea of what passing looks like and that's what they expect. The judges who are known to be a bit more lenient are consistent no matter the age of the tester. Judges who are tougher are equally tougher. I spoke with a local judge about how they equated standard and adult track expectations, specifically on the Gold Moves (what I'm working on), and was told that they expected the same level of skating on the power circles and forward double 3's as they would for a kid testing Juv, since the passing standard is the same. Which is not what the rulebook says, at least about power - about 7 years ago, "power" was changed to  "continuous flow and strength" on the adult moves where power was a focus.

For the most part, I have found that judges understand the physical challenges adult skaters face. And most are willing to give a 'break' in accordance with the rules. But I think most have a specific idea in their head about what a move should look like and there isn't a lot of leeway. And particularly at the higher adult levels - Silver and Gold - the judges just don't see a lot of those tests, so they don't have much of a reference point.

ETA: I took Silver MIF 4 times. The first 2 times I deserved a retry - first time the test was iffy and 2nd time I just didn't skate well - and the 3rd time, one judge passed me and my coach thought I deserved to pass. The 4th time, I actually skated worse than the 3rd but 2 judges passed me - it was just an easier panel. I expect to have to take Gold MIF at least 3 times.

[Doubletoe]

The only other factor I'd consider is how many adult tests the judges in your area actually see during a given year.  If they're only seeing a handful a year, they might not be able to form their mental image of what a Silver test "should" look like and fall back on the standards they already have.  In that case, going to an area where judges see a lot of adult tests might be beneficial.

Agreed, and I feel for those adult skaters in areas without a lot of adult skaters!  I am very fortunate to have taken all of my adult MIF tests in Southern California, where there are plenty of adult skaters and judges are used to the standards.  I was even asked to help demonstrate adult MIF at a judges' seminar once, along with several other adults.  I appreciated that they were trying to give local judges an idea of what is and isn't passing for adults, and how adults might have different problems on the moves than the kids.  I know the judges here use different standards for the adult track and standard track because I passed the Gold MIF on the first try but it took me 5 or 6 tries to pass Intermediate MIF, which was only one move different at the time!

[slcbelle]

I'm an adult skate in Utah (Salt Lake Figure Skating club) and tested for the first time in August Pre-Bronze MITF and FS.  I passed both but had to do my one footed spin over because I didn't get enough rotations the first time.

A woman that skates at Steiner (home rink) just passed her Silver Moves a week or so ago at the Cottonwood Heights testing sessions.  One coach said she might not be ready for Silver Moves, the other said she was.  Like I said, she passed.

Take the above FWIW.  That's the extent of what I know about testing in Utah.  :-)

[severina]

I passed my silver moves today. All 3 judges gave me passing scores.  No more back pain induced by spirals til intermediate.  Woohoo!

[sarahspins]

I passed my silver moves today. All 3 judges gave me passing scores.  No more back pain induced by spirals til intermediate.  Woohoo!

YAY! I'm so glad you passed   JMO but I think as long as you can generate the speed required for the intermediate spirals that pattern is so much easier to do.

I'm at the point with my silver moves where the only iffy thing is the 3 turns, and that varies from day to day.  Some days they are perfectly fine, I go through them with no trouble at all, then the very next session it's almost like I have a mental block and it's hopeless.  My coach wants me to try testing them in just over a month and I am terrified... I am going to sign up to do it, but I do not expect to pass mostly because the test session is in an arena I've skated at only once, and I know the ice feels so different from what I am used to.  If I pass on the first try it will be a miracle.

[jjane45]

I passed my silver moves today. All 3 judges gave me passing scores.  No more back pain induced by spirals til intermediate.  Woohoo!

Congratulations!! How did the test go? Did you get different judges?

Would totally LOVE to see a video too if you don't mind sharing

[severina]

Didn't get a video of it.   I had 3 different judges and all 3 passed me.  I got bonus marks on my cross strokes and 8 step. 

[PinkLaces]

I passed my silver moves today. All 3 judges gave me passing scores.  No more back pain induced by spirals til intermediate.  Woohoo!

Woohoo indeed!  Congrats!

[treesprite]

I passed my silver moves today. All 3 judges gave me passing scores.  No more back pain induced by spirals til intermediate.  Woohoo!

Congrats!

[isakswings]

I'm just venting, but I want to hear other adults input where you guys skate to see if it's the same or if they're more lax with adults...  I skated as a child and tested up to Junior ....  I still have good figures and I can land almost all my doubles except for 2lutz and 2axel which I will be starting to work on after my overuse injury to my landing leg (almost stress fractured the femur bone)..  I'm 35 and I decided to do moves in the field for the fun of it.  Adults here seem to be getting tested just as strictly as the kids.  I'm going to be taking my Silver moves a third time in January.  They're SO strict here and the moves that I seem to be getting marked on are the dance ones (cross strokes).  I feel they are fine and have looked and looked through youtube and I think I'm doing just fine, but the judges here are crazy.

I've seen adults here on their 8th and 9th silver / gold moves tries.  That's ridiculous because the ones I've seen should have honestly passed their tests.  We're doing this as a hobby now and not to become olympic champions.

How are adults doing in other parts of the country?  Are there any from Utah here that can comment on the brutalness of the judging here when it comes to judging the adults pretty much the same as the kids?

Where in Utah are you? I am in UT as well.

[isakswings]

Since you are blessed with a ton of judges in your area, I would ask one of them for a critique or feedback. They really do want to pass you and will help if you ask.

I also agree. Living in the area, many of the judges are more then willing to offer a critique. Ask your coach and your club test chair about setting one up.

[isakswings]

I had 2 of the same judges both times... the 2 that gave me the retry.  They both failed me by .1 each.  I hear they never give bonus marks so basically gave me 2.7 and then one gave me a 2.6 on my mowhawk and one gave me 2.6 on my cross strokes.  the other judge that was the 3rd one that passed me was different Each time... gave me bonus points on the cross strokes and another element too . Same with the first one.  Boggle.

I realize this is old but honestly, they are just as hard on the kids. Took my daughter 3 times to pass her pre juv moves. And even with her pass, one judge was still incredibly hard on her. We are in UT too.

[isakswings]

I passed my silver moves today. All 3 judges gave me passing scores.  No more back pain induced by spirals til intermediate.  Woohoo!

Congratulations!! That is fabulous. Are you competing at all? I like to watch the adults skate! We will be in PC for Winter Games in 2 weeks.

[Robin]

I am of the belief that adult skaters should not get a break if they are on the regular track. That said, maybe go to a test session elsewhere.