Mark V blades with (older) Jackson Competitor skates?

[AgnesNitt]

Major heart attack: did not get an email reply from Jackson, so I called them up to inquire about "competitor skates with mark V blades". A supervisor told me:

1) they are at least 6 years old 
2) not heat moldable if they have PVC soles
3) *IF* they have PVC soles, it's not possible to change the blades

I am not familiar with PVC... Does the first photo look like PVC or leather soles? :sigh:

FYI this site has a picture of the Jackson PVC soles. Once you see them, you'll always remember them. They're as plastic as plastic can be.

http://www.skates.co.uk/ice-skates/mystique-jackson-figure-ice-skates-1490-1491.html

[alejeather]

How did you find these on eBay? Have you been watching for certain types of skates and snag these when a deal came around?

[jjane45]

Thanks AgnesNitt!

How did you find these on eBay? Have you been watching for certain types of skates and snag these when a deal came around?

Honestly, if my local pro shop has used boots in my desired size and model, I would rather buy from them for the peace of mind...

Pure dumb luck in this case. There were other bidders too. A friend of mine also won a pair of like new competitor boots in my size not long ago under $100 (now I should ask her how old those were...) If you look at the sold listings on eBay, deals actually do surface frequently.

eBay can send notification for saved searches: http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/save-searches.html. I have not used it personally. Guess there are third party apps too?

[icedancer]

I have bought blades on ebay and have the daily search notice sent daily for "figure skate blades" - just about anything to do with skating comes up and I have seen some great stuff on there - and every once in a while something you need - one time a skater in my area was selling her skates on ebay and I went to the rink and tried them out - didn't buy them because she wanted WAY too much money for them (IMHO) but she did sell them at a certain point to someone at that price - so yeah, there is stuff out there and it is easy to do the daily digest thingy.

[ChristyRN]

After a good night's sleep, please, pretty please?

I dug out the box.  I think it's actually my second set--a stupid rink employee totally effed up the first pair.  I was mistaken--they are Ultima Matrix blades.  Maybe the Marks were on my Classique/Mystiques? Those are at the rink for a beginner to try--I can't go check them. 

[platyhiker]

FYI this site has a picture of the Jackson PVC soles. Once you see them, you'll always remember them. They're as plastic as plastic can be.

http://www.skates.co.uk/ice-skates/mystique-jackson-figure-ice-skates-1490-1491.html

Yow!  Those sure are plastic looking - ick!  However, not all Jackson PVC soles look that way.  Here's one that is clearly trying to imitate the look of leather soles by making it look like there are layers in the heel:  http://www.skates.co.uk/ice-skates/glacier-gsu-120-jackson-ice-skates.html

[jjane45]

I dug out the box.  I think it's actually my second set--a stupid rink employee totally effed up the first pair.  I was mistaken--they are Ultima Matrix blades.  Maybe the Marks were on my Classique/Mystiques? Those are at the rink for a beginner to try--I can't go check them. 

Thank you very much

Please do not worry about checking Classique/Mystiques. My old Classiques had Mark IV blades. The puzzling thing is Mark V blades that briefly paired with old old old Competitors

[jjane45]

Email reply from Jackson:

The Mark V blade was used on our first versions of our Competitor models in the late 1990's until 2001.  It was comparable to the John Wilson Club 2000 blade.
Given the age of the skate, we do not recommend comparing to our current Competitor model.  Materials and cements used within the skate can deteriorate over time and may no longer provide the support needed for current model recommended use.

So 15+ is about right. I am really curious about the boot condition

[platyhiker]

So 15+ is about right. I am really curious about the boot condition

I can offer you a reason for optimism - I returned to skating last winter, and I am using the skates my parents bought me around 1982.  As you would expect, they are all leather skates (no heat-moldable plastic in them).  The leather is in fine shape and the skates are still very supportive.  My feet have changed a bit over the years, getting a bit wider, so I did have the front third of the skate stretched for width.  My skates were made by Oberhammer, which seems to have gone out of business, and are a boot for fairly high level skaters.

The photo of your skates makes it look like they have hardly been used.  As long as they were stored in a reasonable environment (i.e. not someplace that let them get moldy), there are quite good odds they are in very good shape.  I would read the comment from Jackson that "Materials and cements used within the skate can deteriorate over time and may no longer provide the support needed" as a CYA response to help avoid possible lawsuits.

I will be very interested in what you think of the general "feel" of the skate compared to more modern skates.  (I have read comments on this board that quite a few skaters who once skated in all leather skates are not wild about the newer, stiffer skate designs.  I have not read the comments of anybody trying the reverse sequence.)

[jjane45]

I can offer you a reason for optimism - I returned to skating last winter, and I am using the skates my parents bought me around 1982.  As you would expect, they are all leather skates (no heat-moldable plastic in them).  The leather is fine shape and the skates are still very supportive...

I will be very interested in what you think of the general "feel" of the skate compared to more modern skates.  (I have read comments on this board that quite a few skaters who once skated in all leather skates are not wild about the newer, stiffer skate designs.  I have not read the comments of anybody trying the reverse sequence.)

Thank you, that is a success story!

I have been wondering what are the main differences between all leather and more modern versions

[rachelplotkin]

I have a pair of older, all leather Riedell skates from the mid 90's.  They were stored carefully and in good shape when I got them out in March.  But they were (are) unbearably uncomfortable.  I tried heating them with a blow dryer before putting them on.  I tried lacing looser.  I tried lacing tighter.  It did not seem to matter what I did they just never were comfortable (I did not get them punched out, however.)  The experts at Rainbo said the last that is used in figure skates has changed.  The skates I had were made from a last that was modeled on a woman's shoe from the 50's.  Switching to a heat moldable boot was a welcome relief for my feet.  Less than a week after getting my new skates I spent 4 hours in them for a skating workshop with no problem (which really amazed my coach.)

[AgnesNitt]

I understand the CYA status of Jackson, but I have a rideable sidesaddle that was made in the 20's. If cared for and stored well, the skates should be okay.

[sarahspins]

My SP Teri Customs that were made in 1997 are still in good enough shape to skate in... old doesn't always mean much   If they were well cared for and not left in an attic or shed they will probably be just fine.

[jjane45]

The skates are here, yes they are white and shinny. The interior padding on the sides of ankle is definitely drier and much thinner compared to my (close to end of life) current competitors of the same size. I am guessing the padding is thinner by design - from 15+ years ago.

With foot length of 9", I am size 5 in Jackson. Compared to my old skates of the exact same size and width (5B), they are visually the same length from outside, but look much narrower.

Assume Jackson sizing stayed consistent (big if), I am speculating
1) New skates are just narrower and expand over time
2) Padding is thinner hence skates look narrower on the outside
3) Some combination of the above

Ankle bone immediately hurts like crazy when I put my feet into the skates, BEFORE lacing up. I see some punching out in order if the skates are kept. Toe box seems narrower too. It also *feels* longer than my current skates, but if I put an index finger between the heel and my foot, it seems to be about the same in length.

I skated 2 very shaky laps in them between the shows today with mixed feelings. To be fair, I attribute the inability to stop to blades 1/3" longer than my current ones. Not sure how it will work, need a pro shop appointment soon!

[jjane45]

Jackson's current Competitors are DJ 2470, my existing skates are 2270.

The Jackson website lists the following old models for competitor:
DJ 1200 Competitor Ladies
DJ 1250 Competitor Ladies
DJ 1251 Competitor Misses
DJ 1270 Competitor Ladies   <-  and I now have this one

[karrot]

It's funny you mention the 1/3 in. sizing difference in the blade... My new (old) skates look just like yours and I was surprised the blades on mine were 9 1/3 (MK blades seem to all be in 1/4 size increments now.)

Mine hurt my ankle bone SO bad the first few days I put them on but they're pretty good now. I've been skating in them twice now, for about an hour at a time.

[jjane45]

It's funny you mention the 1/3 in. sizing difference in the blade... My new (old) skates look just like yours and I was surprised the blades on mine were 9 1/3 (MK blades seem to all be in 1/4 size increments now.)

Mine hurt my ankle bone SO bad the first few days I put them on but they're pretty good now. I've been skating in them twice now, for about an hour at a time.

LOL!! I nearly stepped on the blade and kill myself on a T-stop. Never thought 1/3" would make so much difference.

I am sure I'll need to punch that out if I hold onto them. Sitting in the skates with wet socks without lacing up. After an hour my right ankle bone suddenly hurt so much that I had to free my feet immediately, the boot managed to make the ankle bone red...

Contemplating on making gel donuts already

[platyhiker]

It also *feels* longer than my current skates, but if I put an index finger between the heel and my foot, it seems to be about the same in length.

If you haven't done so already, I highly recommend using the insoles of the old and new skates to figure out if the length is correct for your foot.  Assuming there are removable insoles, pull out the insoles (from the new-to-you skates), stand on them and see if the length is appropriate for your foot.  Too long skates are a big handicap, so you want to check this before you spend a bunch of time adjusting other things.  Comparing the insoles with those of your prior skates will also tell you some about how the interior shapes of the skates compare.

I suspect a big part of the different appearance in width is the amount of padding on the sides of the skates.  (My circa 1982 skates have padding ONLY on the tongue and look much narrower than skates of today.)  As you experiment with getting the skates adjusted to your feet, I suggest experimenting with keeping the laces a bit on the loose side, as I suspect that the boot may have a narrower shape to start with - lace the boots up be just barely not loose and then tighten a little bit at any spots that feel like they need more support (most likely the last hole or two and the first hook or two to support the ankle well).  In adjusting my skates to my now-wider feet, I found that I had to re-learn how tight to make the laces.  (As a teenager, I had very narrow feet, and my boots are sized extra-narrow, and I still had pull pretty hard on the laces to get the support I needed then; now with medium width feet I need a lot less tension in the laces to support jump landings and spins.)

Good luck with work on the new skates!

[jjane45]

Thanks platyhiker, I totally forgot to do it!

Standing on the new insoles I could not tell if it's too long or not. I do not have the original insole for the old skates, but still tried to swap the insoles. New skate's insole barely fits into the old skate. By putting my yellow superfeet insole into the new skate and marking the distance from insole's tip to the front of the skate on my finger (lol), I am estimating the new skates are 1/16" - 1/8" longer than my old skates...

If anything, my old skates were OK snug, maybe even on the longer side. And the seller's street shoe size is half size bigger than mine (7 vs 6.5). Up to 1/8" longer, i.e. half skate size bigger probably will not work - maybe I don't even need to visit the pro shop.

[jjane45]

Up to 1/8" longer, i.e. half skate size bigger probably will not work - maybe I don't even need to visit the pro shop.

I was offered some newspaper to be stuffed into the skates. Apparently that's how soviet athletes handled too long skates... :rolleyes: