Re: 2012 Adult Committee Proposed Changes

[drskater]

I think I know where the confusion is coming from. The TEST book does not define what USFS considers to be individual jumps, and jump sequences. It simply states the requirements.

However, the RULEBOOK does indeed specify what USFS means by (1) individual jump; (2) jump comination; and (3) jump sequence. You can find this information under the Technical Requirements, TR 4100-- (p. 187 of the current edition).

The assumption is that when you read the information about tests, you've already read the relevant information in the Rulebook.

In short: for Adult Bronze freeskate, you must perform the three required jumps (salchow, toe-loop, and whatever) as individual jumps and the only combination you need to do is the waltz-toe. (I suppose you could throw another combination if you feel like it, but you'd be wasting your time because the judges cannot mark it/count it.)

[MadMac]

The judges want to see single jumps so they can see the entrance, take-off, and landing of each jump. A jump combo or sequence does not show this.

[nicklaszlo]

However, the RULEBOOK does indeed specify what USFS means by (1) individual jump; (2) jump comination; and (3) jump sequence. You can find this information under the Technical Requirements, TR 4100-- (p. 187 of the current edition).

4101A defines "Individual Jump" and "Solo Jump" but does not define "Single Jump" which is the term in the test book.  Single jump is defined in both books, but that definition says nothing about combinations/sequences.

Of course, if the judges think you are using combinations to cover up poor technique, they can ask for a reskate or fail the test.

There are many things that are customary which are not in the rulebook.

[Skittl1321]

4101A defines "Individual Jump" and "Solo Jump" but does not define "Single Jump" which is the term in the test book.  Single jump is defined in both books, but that definition says nothing about combinations/sequences.

Of course, if the judges think you are using combinations to cover up poor technique, they can ask for a reskate or fail the test.

I agree- the test book does not say that the jumps have to be done individually.  But, as I pointed out from the wording of the Bronze requirements- the judges are going to expect that, and the judging sheets are set up to "check off" them individually.

It would be a huge risk to set your program up that way, if the judges won't accept it.
If you did a great salchow-loop,  your reskates are now going to be a salchow and a loop.  Meaning no chance to reskate what you DIDN'T do well.

If you said "hey, I did a toe loop in the required waltz-toe combo" and didn't do another, you would be missing an element. 

[LilJen]

Can you clarify what's happening with step/spiral sequence in the WBP requirements? Is that requirement eliminated? I *was* having a tough time fitting in all four required jumps, 3 spins, and a step sequence in my own brain's mishmashed misunderstanding of the Bronze FS test. . . but a program with a MAX of 2 spins AND no step/spiral sequence? Seems kind of empty.

Totally agree with dropping the requirement for an upright spin in Bronze FS test. In COP-speak a fwd upright spin and a backspin are both upright spins so one would count for nothing anyhow, right? Plus, that spin *was* tested at pre-bronze.

[Skittl1321]

The bronze freeskate TEST does not currently required a step sequence.  It requires connecting moves between elements.  If you can't fit a step sequence in, take it out.

The WBP requirements are for competitive programs.  Since the requirements are maximums, unlike the test you don't have to do all 3 spins and all 4 jump elements if you don't skate fast enough to fit it all in -or hold spins for a really really long time- (but you do have to do a step or a spiral sequence).


I don't see the problem of testing the spins at multiple levels, because they require more revolutions and higher quality.  Plus the upright spin is a confidence move for many bronze skaters who often struggle with backspin, sit spin, and flip/loop.  COP codes have nothing to do with this level, as it is scored under 6.0 where a backspin and a scratch spin were common in a single program. The jumps tested repeat themselves, so why not the spins?   Or maybe bronze should only require 2 single jumps (plus the combo), since loop and flip are required at silver.  Otherwise, one of those has already been tested at bronze. Why require it again?    I'm kind of indifferent to this though.

I really really do not want to see the max spins go to 2 in a bronze competition program.  I honestly won't bother competing.  Skating would not be fun anymore.

[drskater]

Can you clarify what's happening with step/spiral sequence in the WBP requirements? Is that requirement eliminated? I *was* having a tough time fitting in all four required jumps, 3 spins, and a step sequence in my own brain's mishmashed misunderstanding of the Bronze FS test. . . but a program with a MAX of 2 spins AND no step/spiral sequence? Seems kind of empty.

LilJen!! Good Call!!
Since the motion reads "Amend the jump and step requirements..." but only describes spins and jumps (i.e. no new step requirements) in the proposed new WPB description and the rationale, I believe you have discovered the ineviable bane of all business meetings-- the [misleading] typo 

At least, IMO it's a typo. I would guess somebody typed "step" instead of "spin."  Hmmmm....

[techskater]

I really really do not want to see the max spins go to 2 in a bronze competition program.  I honestly won't bother competing.  Skating would not be fun anymore.

This would bring it in line with the lower standard track levels, though

[sarahspins]

This would bring it in line with the lower standard track levels, though

True, except that don't we already get like an extra 20s compared to those levels? 

I'm on the fence with this one.. on one hand I kind of like the idea that I can rearrange the end of what feels now like a very very rushed test program (I am pretty sure I won't be testing it until after the changes go into effect).  On the other hand, I don't think limiting to only 2 spins for competition is fair either... if you have the time/ability to do 3, I think you should be allowed to.

[PinkLaces]

I don't like the change on the Bronze WBP.  I am a good spinner and okay to mediocre jumper.  It feels unfairly weighted to the jumpers, but that is just mho.  I did do only 2 spins in one competition (USFS Bronze) I came in last of 6 (everyone else did 3).  I really think if they leave it in you really have to do max spins and jumps sequences/combos to win.  

Probably what they are going for is space for more choregraphy  - spins do take up more time.  My ISI Bronze program is 2:08 and I have 3 spins and 4 jumping passes (gave up 1 jump for the spin) - 1 single salchow, 1 - 2 jump combo, 2 - 3 jump sequences. I also have a spiral in there, bauer, and a gliding maneuver that I don't think has a name.  It's pushing it to get it all in there and I've got a whole extra 18 seconds vs USFS's 1:50 max.  

I think I would be fine with the Silver FS test as it is.  I have a loop and flip.  I have a pretty good attitude spin.  The combo spin might do me in right now.  Luckily, I've got plenty of time to practice it due to Silver Moves.   I reallly do wish they would break up that test into 2 parts.  It's just too darn long.

[techskater]

True, except that don't we already get like an extra 20s compared to those levels? 

I'm on the fence with this one.. on one hand I kind of like the idea that I can rearrange the end of what feels now like a very very rushed test program (I am pretty sure I won't be testing it until after the changes go into effect).  On the other hand, I don't think limiting to only 2 spins for competition is fair either... if you have the time/ability to do 3, I think you should be allowed to.

I am thining more like Prejuv (Silver length equivalent) which is 2:00 +/- 10.  FWIW, Pre-pre and Prelim are 1:30 +/- 10 and most kids skate the full 1:40, so it's 10 seconds longer in Bronze, but many (not all) Bronzes skate slower than the mid-level and top end Pre-pre and Prelim kids, so that makes sense.