Competition registration fees rant

[sampaguita]

Just ranting: I inquired at the rink about the competition registration, and this is what I got:

$40 for 1st event
$30 for succeeding events
$11 ISI membership
$9 per ISI (counting from Pre-alpha!)

That means that for a Delta comp, I would pay $96 for one event!

I know that $40 per event is typical, and so is the membership fee, but where did this $9 per ISI level come from?

[Skittl1321]

I think $9 per ISI level is because it looks like you aren't currently a member of ISI.  You would need to register the Pre-alpha through Delta tests with ISI before being eligible to compete at Delta.  (I don't remember that having a cost though.  Maybe my rink just didn't charge us to test.)

Still a downright bargain compared to USFS- but I've never thought competing at the lower level is "worth it" in terms of what the money could buy in lessons. 

Are you still going to do it?

[sampaguita]

I don't know, really. I don't see myself progressing beyond Delta, since I am not confident enough to jump. Still, it is my dream to compete. I already have my program and music done (coach doesn't know it yet  ). I already have my skating attire ready (except for the crash pads), but the price! $51 is manageable, but the additional $45? That's the difference between getting an Akton pad and getting a hips/tailbone set of SkatingSafe pads. 

On the more practical side, the competition is in mid-May, and my skates will be arriving in mid-April. I don't know if I have enough time to break it in. If I don't do the competition this May, I'll probably do the one in November, if I have money and time to spare by then.

It's really frustrating. I often ask myself why I do this when it is soooo expensive. I haven't skated for more than a month now because I don't have skates. I don't exactly miss the ice, but I find it difficult to just quit, even if I have a lot of reasons to do so.

[hopskipjump]

I do add in coaching comp fees with my entree fees in my comp budget - I find it easier to just write the checks at the same time.  

[FigureSpins]

I know that $40 per event is typical, and so is the membership fee, but where did this $9 per ISI level come from?

To compete in ISI competitions, you have to be a registered member (annual fee - sign up for multiple years and save some money)  and all of your tests have to be registered with ISI Headquarters. 

For Learn-to-Skate programs, the rink just keeps track of your class levels as you move up, but to keep the competitions fair, the ISI requires that all the test forms be registered. 

You only have to register each test once.  Most ISI skaters take only 1-2 tests per year, so it's not an overwhelming investment.   Even if your membership expires, you can still reactivate the tests once you renew. 

The intent is to keep skaters and coaches honest about test/competition levels since you can then compete at any ISI event.  The central registration lets competition directors verify eligibility easily, rather than having to call every skater's rink to ensure they're registered for the correct level.

However, the ISI's site says the test registrations (below level 7) are free, which is a change from when I skated; we paid a minimal fee, like $5/test. 

The $9 charge might be for the coach/director's time in testing, completing the form and submitting it.  Rinks often include a test patch/badge, which you could probably decline to save a little money if you don't want one for each test. 

Yes, this competition will cost you $96, but another one this membership year will only cost you an entry fee if you're still skating at Delta level.  Next year, you pay your membership fee and entry fee.  If you pass FS1, you pay the $9 for the test once.

Ask if there's any way to save some money on the testing fees.  Sometimes, if you're taking multiple tests at once or you don't want the badge, they'll waive some/all of the cost.

Just as an aside, you should also budget coaching fees if you expect the coach to be with you at the competition.

ETA: You don't have the new skates yet, so I don't think a one-month break in period is realistic.  Either skate in your current skates or wait for the November competition.

If you need more support in your current skates, you can use packing or duct tape temporarily.

[Skittl1321]

Still, it is my dream to compete.

Well, once you have those tests registered, you don't have to ever pay that again.  So it is a one time cost.  You'll just have to compete multiple times to amortize (is that the right word?) the payment

[sampaguita]

Nice to know I don't have to pay $9 x # of levels everytime! Thanks for the info FigureSpins and Skittl1321! I know the coach gives you a test to see if you can go to the next level. I am not familiar with the centralized ISI test records.

I should ask the rink though why it costs $9...maybe they have something else included there.

[hopskipjump]

Ours was $5 with no badge at the old rink, but the new rink charges $9 and you have to get the badge. 

[jjane45]

I did not have to pay anything other than ISI membership for the official tests (freestyle test with skating director during midday public session, and dance test in dance class).

[VAsk8r]

To compete in ISI competitions, you have to be a registered member (annual fee - sign up for multiple years and save some money)  and all of your tests have to be registered with ISI Headquarters. 

That's interesting! I've never taken an ISI test, and I've been a member for two years and am competing FS3 this season. I just sign up for the level my coach tells me to.

Sampaguita, the $30 fee for the second event is not typical in my area. Usually doing a second event is $10 or $20.

Unfortunately, if you're going to keep competing and progressing, skating overall is only going to get more expensive. And when you say, "I don't exactly miss the ice," it makes me question if the money is worth it to you. I give up a lot, financially, so I can skate, but I never think "Gosh, I'd much rather have these cute shoes than two weeks of lessons." (OK, almost never.) Skating is too expensive to do it if you don't LOVE it. 

[FigureSpins]

That's interesting! I've never taken an ISI test, and I've been a member for two years and am competing FS3 this season. I just sign up for the level my coach tells me to.

So, do you think your coach doesn't comply with the rules and hasn't registered any of your tests?  I'd be a little worried about that; it means either they're ignorant of the rules or they are cheating.  Either way, not something I'd say out loud.

Anyone can be a member of the ISI.  Have you ever competed before outside of your home rink?  I don't know if in-house competitions worry about the test registration, but other rink's organizers will find it odd that your tests aren't registered.

You should have gotten a copy of your test results, especially for the Freestyle levels.  Those have to be done with both a technical presentation and a program run-through.  Perhaps the coach plans to do it later, or has already submitted it without telling you or giving you a copy?  As I said before, the ISI doesn't charge a fee for registering tests anymore, it's up to each rink to decide if there's a fee and what it entails.

You should find out if you're in compliance before you spend money on the registration fees.  Could be an expensive lesson to learn.

[VAsk8r]

Hmm...now I have more questions and thoughts around this but don't want to state them publicly. I'll definitely have to talk to my coach about it. I've done ISI comps for two years through my own club and others and never had an issue. Thanks for letting me know.

[MadMac]

Last ISI event I had skaters in was about a year ago. A couple weeks before the competition the home office audited the registrations for membership and test requirements, and the currency of coaches' ISI judging credentials. Anyone who was in the incorrect event for their recorded test level was told to bring their tests up to qualify for the event or move to a level they were qualified for. Coaches were told to bring their judging tests up to date before being allowed to sit on any judging panel.

I don't know if they audit all competitions like this or just choose some randomly. 

[sampaguita]

Is testing below your actual skill level legal? I know some girls who do this (compete in Beta despite obviously having skills in FS1).

What if you never progress? What if I never master the half-flip (a required element in FS1 that I cannot do), does that mean I can stay forever in Delta or does ISI impose a time limit?

[Skittl1321]

ISI asks coaches to be honest in placing their students for competitions. Which means you should test to the level you are in.  However, just because they are in a certain class does not mean they have passed the tests below it-  many programs allow skaters to move on to the next class even if they have not mastered a skill in the previous class, to discourage skaters from leaving skating if they get stuck.  However, they would still have to compete in the lower level.    The "fairness" comes from ISI not allowing elements from higher levels (except, I believe, one freeskate element when you are in the basics levels too).  For most skaters who can do FS1 stuff, Beta would be incredibly boring to compete in.

There is no time limit.  If you never pass above Delta, you stay there.  


Also, if you test up high, and lose the skills, you can officially request to the home office to remove the tests.  You then become the lower level, but if you ever want to get back to the higher one, you must retake all the tests.

[FigureSpins]

Is testing below your actual skill level legal? I know some girls who do this (compete in Beta despite obviously having skills in FS1).

What if you never progress? What if I never master the half-flip (a required element in FS1 that I cannot do), does that mean I can stay forever in Delta or does ISI impose a time limit?

The ISI's program was designed to give skaters challenges for many years, so most of their levels have one or two really difficult elements.  Staying at the same level isn't unusual and no one will invalidate your tests because you're taking too long.  As Skittl points out, you can even step down one or more levels in testing if you're unable to perform at that level due to infirmity or illness.

You don't have to pursue Freestyle testing.  Skaters can do any of the other disciplines, some of which (like Freestyle) require the Alpha-Delta tests, but others (like ice dance) do not have those prerequisites. 
http://www.skateisi.com/site/Sub.Cfm?Content=Testing_Requirements

Contrast that to the USFSA Basic Skills program, which is intended to present skills in a learning progression, so the skaters can master skills as quickly as possible.  The goal isn't to keep people skating for a long time, although they can, but instead have them progress quickly into the higher-level testing tracks where Champions are Created.  (sarcasm)

In ISI, you can stay at the same level for as long as it takes.  Ditto for USFSA.  However, your competitors and/or coaches/competition organizers might criticize or sanction you if you're capable of moving up, but stay at the same level in order to dominate a competition.  That's called "sandbagging" and coaches who allow that are often looked down on as well.

Since the ISI has these "tough elements" scattered through every level, sometimes it's really difficult for a skater to master everything in a level and move up.  For example, it took me a long time (skating seasonally only) to master the backward pivots well enough to pass FS3, so I competed FS2 for two seasons and then passed FS3 and FS4 over one summer when I finally could skate year-round.  That one element had me "stuck" at the lower level and I'm sure some of my FS2 competitors felt I was taking advantage during that second season.  The alternative was to not compete until I could pass that test, which for me, wasn't even an option.  I had too much fun competing.

Just a note about testing in groups vs. testing individually: most skating schools shy away from really testing and creating high standards.  It discourages skaters if they don't move up and the directors are unwilling to deal with the complaints.  As a result, most group lessons evaluations are merely a tool for organizing students for the next session of group classes, not for defining an individual skater's competition level.  There's a difference between doing skills at a passing standard and mastering them well enough to compete with those same skills.  That's another valid reason to have the centralized test registration, to ensure that the skills assessments were accurate.  I've had skaters in groups that "had a good day" on the evaluation day, but struggled on skills before and after the evaluations.  As a result, I always take the time in the Fall to evaluate the skaters progress myself and record it for my records, so that when a competition opens up, we know their correct level.  I have skaters who passed FS5 in groups, yet can't do a Lutz.  When group lessons combine levels, it's really easy for the instructor to misjudge out of kindness or error.

[sampaguita]

Very informative, FigureSpins and Skittl1321. I have never taken any ISI test, although I have downgraded my lessons from FS1 to Delta. Our rink has fees per level, not fees per coach, and since my inside 3-turns weren't that good anyway, I figured it's a win-win for me if I downgrade. Thanks!

Btw, I just read the fees for one of the Sectionals in the Events board. You're right Skittl, it's a lot more expensive doing USFSA!

[rosereedy]

If those costs make you frustrated, don't skate USFS.  With competition one event fee, one practice ice, entryez fee, I just paid $115 for Skate Nashville.  Then I have coaches fee of $60 on top of that.  Then hotel, gas and food.  Yeah....awesome.  Just for ONE stupid event. 

I used to love skating ISI because they put a reasonable cap on what you can do in the levels.  Sadly, my rink doesn't participate ISI.  My old rink did both and I LOVED it.

[Rachelsk8s]

If those costs make you frustrated, don't skate USFS.  With competition one event fee, one practice ice, entryez fee, I just paid $115 for Skate Nashville.  Then I have coaches fee of $60 on top of that.  Then hotel, gas and food.  Yeah....awesome.  Just for ONE stupid event. 

I used to love skating ISI because they put a reasonable cap on what you can do in the levels.  Sadly, my rink doesn't participate ISI.  My old rink did both and I LOVED it.

I agree with you Roseyherbert...USFS is definitely much pricier, all around in my honest opinion.  I also just paid an $80 price tag for ONE event, $24 for practice ice, plus fees for entryeez and coach's fees.  Its much more expensive, I too like ISI's prices for competitions as they seem to have deals on adding on other events once you've entered in one.

[VAsk8r]

So, when you compete ISI, do you have to have passed that level's test, or just the level before it? If I'm skating FS3, do I have to have passed FS3 or just FS2? And what if you CAN do the elements in the next level up, just not well enough to have a smooth program, does that count as sandbagging?

[Skittl1321]

IIRC, you need to pass the test for the level you are skating in.  You can't 'skate up' in ISI, though possibly local competitions will allow it.  The freestyle tests consist of doing the elements in isolation and in a program.   If you can't do them well enough to do the program, you have not passed the test.

[sampaguita]

The ISI's program was designed to give skaters challenges for many years, so most of their levels have one or two really difficult elements.  Staying at the same level isn't unusual and no one will invalidate your tests because you're taking too long.  As Skittl points out, you can even step down one or more levels in testing if you're unable to perform at that level due to infirmity or illness.

...

Contrast that to the USFSA Basic Skills program, which is intended to present skills in a learning progression, so the skaters can master skills as quickly as possible.  The goal isn't to keep people skating for a long time, although they can, but instead have them progress quickly into the higher-level testing tracks where Champions are Created.  (sarcasm)

I've always wondered why back 3-turns were not included in the ISI Alpha-Delta levels, not even in FS1. Even backward edges are on FS1! I think the USFSA curriculum makes more sense: it gets the basic skating skills out of the way before attempting to do the "tricks" like jumps and spins.

[FigureSpins]

Forward/Back inside/outside three turns are on ISI FS4 in the Dance Step Sequence; Choctaws and Brackets are in the ISI FS5 Dance Step Sequence.  For the test, everyone has to demonstrate the turns and other skills, then perform a program with the set Dance Step Sequence for that level.  Instead of having two separate test disciplines, the ISI incorporates it into one more challenging track. 

For learning progression, the USFSA Basic Skills (BSS) is well-planned, but the skaters don't stay in those levels long enough to really master the skills.  They then spend time and money on private lessons to pass the Moves and Freeskate tests. 

ISI's greek levels (Alpha-Delta) are really much more generic than the USFSA's Basic levels.  That was intentional: they're the core skills needed before starting Hockey or Freestyle.  While you may appreciate the BSS Basic curriculum, I can tell you that hockey skaters don't - they don't need to learn two-foot spins to do a slapshot, lol.  That's why they often change to Learn to Play programs after Basic 3/4.  The one-foot three turn on Basic 4 really discourages them.

The ISI was intended to let skaters progress more slowly, so that their skills can develop more strongly, even if they just do group lessons.  Skaters learn the basics along with the spins and jumps, which for recreational skaters is a better progression.  Some skating directors advocate passing the kids through the Basic levels quickly so they can get to the "fun stuff" in freeskate before they get frustrated and lose interest.  So, we have kids who can't hold a checked edge or do three turns trying to master toe loops and scratch spins.  They get stuck in the more-interesting freeskate levels instead of the boring Basic levels, lol. 

It's six of one, a half-dozen of the other. 

[turnip]

I pay about £20-£25 per competition in entry fees, plus about £60 annually to be a NISA member (required to compete). My coach hasn't accompnied me since my first comp, which was at home rink, I think it was about £10 for her time, which I felt was worth it, she got me warmed up, calmed my nerves and came to the rescue with her mp3 player when neither of my cds worked!

[Query]

For our ISI synchro competitions, I think we paid $10 / member one place, and $10 / team + $5 / team member at the other. We also paid $15 for ISI National membership each, once. Given that that is the official national rate, I don't know how you got away with only $11.

AFAIK, few of us had taken any official ISI tests.

(OTOH, I think one of the team members bought the "official" video pictures - for $32 or $40. Pricey.)

Neither rink charged for admission, or for the program. And competitors got a free gift - a little first aid kit!

Your rink sure makes lots of money from comps.