Going from 8' to 7' rocker blades

[phoenix]

has anyone ever done this? I'm on 8' rocker blades, have been for forever. I'm looking at new blades & some of them have a 7' rocker. I've always struggled with spins and also with quick turns where you reverse the rotation, like the junior power pulls w/ quick rockers. I've also never felt great about forward counters & sometimes catch the back of the blade & go down because of it. I've wondered if having more rocker would help. My skate guy doesn't recommend it; says it will feel very tippy after the flatter blade.

I do pretty much only dance & moves.

Any comments appreciated! Thanks.

[icedancer]

What blade are you in currently??

[sarahspins]

My skate guy doesn't recommend it; says it will feel very tippy after the flatter blade.

You might like the change, but you might not, and you may struggle to adjust to it which I think is why some recommend against it - but even considering that, I have known skaters who struggled simply going from a worn down version of a blade to a brand new one, not even changing blade models.  I think honestly a lot of the "tippy" feeling of a blade has to do with the spin rocker, not the rocker radius.  Some people have a harder time getting used to a new spin rocker than others - some people are just fine within a couple of hours on the ice, and others may take months and still never feel right on their blades.  The difference between a 7' and 8' radius is really marginal over the length of a skate blade... I don't think it really makes much difference. 

I too would like to know what you are skating in currently.

[LilJen]

I switched about 6 weeks ago from 6-year-old Comets (original rocker was 8.5) AND boots/blades that were ever so slightly too long. My new blades are G4, which, reading between the advertisers "customized primary and secondary rocker blah blah blah" is about a 7-ft rocker. My new boots are shorter and wider (as they should be) and the blades are 1/4 inch shorter.

So, pretty drastic change, right? Yeah, but I'm mostly used to them. It's the rockiness that I notice the most. As in, if I'm off, I REALLY know it and must have gotten away with being on the wrong part of my very flat blade for a while in turns and spins. The sweet spot is in a slightly different place, too, because of the different boots. In spite of the differences, I can see that these blades are a big improvement. Already they're forcing me to stand up straighter--imagine that!!

[phoenix]

Thanks for the replies; i'm currently on Ultima Dance blades.

[icedancer]

Oooh, I want to try those - or I am thinking actually of getting the Ultima Synchro because they are so much cheaper!!

I am currently in MK Dance and really kind of hate them, have always kind of hated them... what were you thinking of trying???

[fsk8r]

Oooh, I want to try those - or I am thinking actually of getting the Ultima Synchro because they are so much cheaper!!

That was my thought process exactly. I love my Synchro blades, but I can't really do a compare and contrast with them.

With regards to the 8ft to 7ft rocker, I switched from ISE Sterlings (8ft) to Ultima Legacy and Synchro (both 8ft) and my coach much prefers the Ultima. Her complaint with the ISE blades was that the rocker was that the spin rocker was too flat so I had nowhere to roll up onto my toe-picks for jumps and it was affecting my technique. I learnt in the switch that the rocker dimensions quoted don't really make much difference its the shape of the spin rocker which is most important.

[sampaguita]

What about going from 7' to 8'? My first skates had Quest Onyx Blades. Am moving to the Ultima Mirage. What should I expect to be normal? Should I be extra careful about the toepicks?

[irenar5]

When moving from 7 to 8, I noticed that I could get a lot more of  glide for the push.  The blades were the same length. 
When I switched boots later, I went down 2 blade sizes (from 9 3/4 to 9 1/4)- so 1/2" less, but also in 8 ft rocker.  The shorter blade felt more like the 7 foot  rocker on the older blade! I felt like I had to push a bit harder. 

[Doubletoe]

According to my blade guru, what's more important than the rocker radius (7' vs 8') is the shape of the rocker.  I wouldn't advise going from an 8' rocker to a 7' rocker because you will lose stability.  Instead, why not switch to another 8' blade that has a different rocker profile, i.e., a rounder/fuller rocker, a blade with a sweet spot that's farther forward or farther back, etc.?

Sampaguita -  I was able to go from the 7' MK Gold Star to the 8' Wilson Gold Seal with absolutely zero adjustment on jumps, spins, and turns because those two blades have the same rocker shape ("rocker profile").  The only thing that required adjustment was plain old backward stroking and backward crossovers.  My 8' blades were flatter behind the rocker so I needed to let my weight go farther back on my blades when skating backwards and it just felt really weird for the first week.  But once I got used to it, I loved the stability and extra glide and I will never go back to a 7' rocker now!

[sarahspins]

Thanks for the replies; i'm currently on Ultima Dance blades.

Are you looking to stay with dance blades or looking at freestyle blades?  You mention catching the back of your blade on turns and I wonder if you might be happier with the little extra length a freestyle blade would give ou even though you do dance... or maybe it's time to consider having two pairs of skates, one for moves and freestyle (even if that's more spinning than jumping) and another for dance.

[phoenix]

Nope absolutely not on the freestyle blades. I couldn't even tell you the last time I attempted a jump. I'm strictly a dance girl!! (and moves too)

[icedancer]

According to my blade guru, what's more important than the rocker radius (7' vs 8') is the shape of the rocker.  I wouldn't advise going from an 8' rocker to a 7' rocker because you will lose stability.  Instead, why not switch to another 8' blade that has a different rocker profile, i.e., a rounder/fuller rocker, a blade with a sweet spot that's farther forward or farther back, etc.?

How does one get more information about what blades have what sort of rocker shape?  I am pretty sure that my problem with my MK dance has more to do with where the rocker sits under my foot than anything else - I wish Wilson made a decent dance blade!!!!!

[Query]

How does one get more information about what blades have what sort of rocker shape?  I am pretty sure that my problem with my MK dance has more to do with where the rocker sits under my foot than anything else - I wish Wilson made a decent dance blade!!!!!

:angel Are your MK Dance 9-3/4"? How worn down, and how much do you want for them? I love MK Dance. :angel

You can measure blades by comparing tracings in the store, or using a rocker gauge like the one from iceskateology.com. I don't think MK/Wilson scale the spin rocker shape and length with the overall blade length, but you might check. If the pro has several pair, look at the left and right blades of each - one pair might please you better - they vary a lot.

Move the mounting point to change where the rocker sits under your foot. Obviously, that changes the toe pick and tail end positions too. The tail end can be ground off, or you can buy a shorter or longer blade. If the blade overhangs the boot so much it interferes with foot work, grind off the edge of the mounting plate.

You can reshape the spin rocker area and positioning, but it wastes metal, so consider what you want before you start. Little changes in the spin rocker make huge differences. Change .002 - .003 inches at a time.

If you can figure out all those crazy test rules, this should be simple!

Celebrate becoming a Gold test judge (amazing!) by buying and trying every type of Dance blade. Tell us what you think.

[icedancer]

:angel Are your MK Dance 9-3/4"? How worn down, and how much do you want for them? I love MK Dance. :angel

No sorry, they are 10 1/4 - I actually have two pairs...

If you can figure out all those crazy test rules, this should be simple!

Celebrate becoming a Gold test judge (amazing!) by buying and trying every type of Dance blade. Tell us what you think.

I should celebrate by spending even more money?  LOL

I have tried Wilson Super Dance 99 - I liked the run and feel of them but they are just too darn short (about 1/2" shorter than MK Dance) - my favorite was the Wilson Dance (they are a Majestic with the backs cut off) - LOVED that blade but they don't make them anymore and for some reason I don't just want to buy a Majestic (cheap, cheap blade) and cut off the back because I think it might have been more than that...

I keep thinking of picking up some Ultima Sychro blades - they are a bit longer and have good picks, 8' rocker... and cheaper than Ultima Dance...

But I will probably put the Super Dance 99 on first and go from there...

[Query]

Some people say the Riedell Eclipse Dance is most similar to the Wilson Dance, and is cheaper.

The Ultima Dance is way, way different from your MK Dance blades. They have a shape somewhat similar to a worn out MK Dance, in that a very small angular shift will take you from resting on the balls of your feet to resting on your toe pick, and in that there is less change in the rocker radius between the main rocker and the spin rocker than the MK Dance has. Some people love that, some people don't. I hated it - but I'm not a good enough skater to take advantage of the ability to make big differences in the way the blade performs with very small angular shifts of the foot.

[icedancer]

Some people say the Riedell Eclipse Dance is most similar to the Wilson Dance, and is cheaper.

The Ultima Dance is way, way different from your MK Dance blades. They have a shape somewhat similar to a worn out MK Dance, in that a very small angular shift will take you from resting on the balls of your feet to resting on your toe pick, and in that there is less change in the rocker radius between the main rocker and the spin rocker than the MK Dance has. Some people love that, some people don't. I hated it - but I'm not a good enough skater to take advantage of the ability to make big differences in the way the blade performs with very small angular shifts of the foot.

Well, I don't like the MK Dance because I always feel like I am going up to the (non-existent) picks and it throws me off.  So having more of that sounds really really bad, at least for me.

I like the idea of that Eclipse blade and may go and take a look at it.  I am looking to spend less money on my next pair of blades especially after the $400+ for the Super Dance 99.

Thanks for the information.

[Cryo]

 This video is from paramount skate blades site and discusses 7 vs.  8 foot rocker and spin radius.
http://www.paramountskates.com/techinfo.php

Here is another video. That they measure blade profiles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3lJS-QWKEY&feature=relmfu

Cryo

[sarahspins]

Well, I don't like the MK Dance because I always feel like I am going up to the (non-existent) picks and it throws me off.  So having more of that sounds really really bad, at least for me.

I don't think it's just you - I've never skated on them (despite owning a pair for almost 15 years now) but I have heard they are designed to pitch your balance point forward on the blade compared to others - and you either like it, or you don't, there doesn't seem to be much inbetween.

[Query]

[MK Dance] I've never skated on them (despite owning a pair for almost 15 years now)

Cool! Are yours 9-3/4" - if so what would you sell them for?

--

BTW, the Broadbent gauge shown in the video, which I've seen, is based on a 3 point measurement, offset a small specific distance from the side rail. Therefore, a small scale bump in the rocker or in the thickness or side honing of the blade, or a fixable level bend or twist, can cause a large measured variation.

It makes sense to ask many people for their opinion of a blade. But all that might tell you is the much advertised fact that the MK Dance is overwhelmingly the most popular ice dance blade.

You can make the transition to the toe pick much more gradual by deliberately grinding back the sweet spot, to make the transition more gradual. It sounds like that is what you want. But you won't be able to feel when you are at the sweet spot - the exact opposite of what I want in a blade.

[sarahspins]

Nope, they are (much) shorter.

[AgnesNitt]

Nope, they are (much) shorter.

Tinkerbell feet!

[Hanca]

Has anyone ever swapped from Phantom to Gold seal? I am wondering whether I am going to loose spins and whether twizzles will be much harder, considering that the blade is flatter? Spinning is generally hard for me, so not sure whether I wouldn't make it even worse. What I like on the picture of Gold seal is that the sweet spot there seems to be quite nicely curved , maybe more than Phantom so I thought it could help with spinning... (not sure if it is just an optical illusion - it can be deceiving to judge the shape from a picture)

By the way, I am managing the stability on Phantom fine, so I don't think the rocker 7 is as unstable as some skaters make it.

[Doubletoe]

Has anyone ever swapped from Phantom to Gold seal? I am wondering whether I am going to loose spins and whether twizzles will be much harder, considering that the blade is flatter? Spinning is generally hard for me, so not sure whether I wouldn't make it even worse. What I like on the picture of Gold seal is that the sweet spot there seems to be quite nicely curved , maybe more than Phantom so I thought it could help with spinning... (not sure if it is just an optical illusion - it can be deceiving to judge the shape from a picture)

By the way, I am managing the stability on Phantom fine, so I don't think the rocker 7 is as unstable as some skaters make it.

I predict an improvement in your spins when you switch to the Gold Seal, since the rocker is exactly like the Gold Star rocker shape, i.e., farther forward and rounder than the Phantom rocker and very good for spinning.  The Gold Seal is only flatter than the Phantom in the middle and back of the blade, so if your experience going from 7' to 8' is anything like mine, you will feel the difference in regular stroking, especially back crossovers.  You will probably need to get used to letting your weight go farther back on the blade, which you can afford to do because the blade is flatter.  You will also feel that added stability!  Not sure about twizzles.

[Hanca]

When everyone says that it will be much easier to glide - I am not sure if that's what I really need. I am able to generate a lot of speed quite easily, so I am wondering if my skating would be completely out of control with rocker 8? (I think I am the only one my coach says 'don't push!!!', whereas to others she always says Push!)

Is Gold seal - the spinning bit- is it more curved than Phantom, or is the same?

Twizzles probably will be a problem if it is flatter, won't it? (well, I suppose they can't be worse because mine are bad enough now!  )