Too narrow or too wide?

[sampaguita]

When your feet don't have the same width, would you go by the wider foot or by the narrower foot? (assuming you can heat mold the skate)

If you go by the wider foot, then naturally the other boot would be a bit loose. Would substituting a thicker insole solve the width problem? And what can you do if the heel is a little too wide?

(My feet are off by one width. Left foot would fit a 5B in Jackson, right foot would fit a 5C or a 4.5D. I'm leaning towards the 5C, but since my previous Riedells used the size of the narrower foot (for some reason, the heat molding worked), I have no experience using wider boot measurements.)

[FigureSpins]

Others might disagree, but I would choose the more narrow width and have the tight skate stretched if needed.  I despise the feeling of a too-wide boot - it makes jumps and turns very difficult.  My Jacksons fit my left foot well, which is good for spins, but are too long/wide on the right foot.  To get it tight enough, I have to cinch the right boot enough to wrinkle the outside of the skate.

[Skittl1321]

I would say it depends on how narrow it is.  I had the displeasure of being in boots that were too narrow, and despite repeated stretchings it was extremely painful and really effected my ability to skate. (I couldn't go more than 10 minutes without losing feeling in my feet- generally they were white by the end of a lesson, and would take long massage to get any circulation.  I worried about permanent damage.  This was one width too small...)

I would fit the wider foot, and then consider some sort of padding option for the other boot.


Honestly though- that sounds like an issue that would be best solved by custom skates?

[emitche]

Could you order a 5B and a 5C and see which size fits both your feet best?

[sarahspins]

Have you contacted Jackson about the possibility of ordering a pair of boots with different widths?

[sampaguita]

@sarahspins and Skittl1321: Jackson said the Freestyle wasn't available in split widths, unfortunately, so I have to decide on a particular size. And as for custom boots, I wish I could afford those. Definitely would put an end to my boot problems.

@emitche: We only stock C widths in the pro shop here...I was able to try on a 4.5C (similar to a 5B) Competitor on my right foot (the shorter but wider foot) and it was so painful, but then it was a stiff, unbaked boot and I don't know what would have happened if I had it heat molded.

@FigureSpins: Have you tried any padding for your right boot?

[Sk8tmum]

RE the Jackson heel: Unless they've resolved it, Jacksons have had a problem with the heel cup opening as the boots are used, thus, if it's too wide to start with, it will worsen. 
RE the mismatching sizes ... you're not really asking for a split width, yes?  Just two different boot sizes?  Could your pro shop order mismatching sizes from Jackson? I think they charge a small fee for this, but, I've heard of it happening from others.  (forgive me if there's something about where you live, etc, that makes this impossible ... )
RE stretching a narrow boot. You can do this to a certain extent, however, you can end up "misbalancing" the boots by making them wider than the sole (does that make sense?).

[sampaguita]

Sk8tmum: Thanks! I think I read about your previous post on your dd's Jackson heel problem -- may I know when you bought those skates, what model were they, and how long did it take before the heel became a problem?

Regarding the heel -- turns out my heels and ankles have the same measurement on both the right and left feet! (I used this guide: http://ontheedgepei.com/wp-content/uploads/Left-Right%20Foot%20Sizing%20Guide.png.pdf) It's just that the ball of one foot is wider than the other (the wider foot is also shorter)...

EDIT: Jackson Classique 5C (not the model I want to buy - am interested in Freestyles) has the right width (or maybe just a little too wide) for my right foot in an unbaked state, no pinching on a particular site (although the leather is kinda heavy and stiff and pushes down on the foot in all directions). Will that keep even with heat molding?

[Sk8tmum]

Sk8tmum: Thanks! I think I read about your previous post on your dd's Jackson heel problem -- may I know when you bought those skates, what model were they, and how long did it take before the heel became a problem?

Regarding the heel -- turns out my heels and ankles have the same measurement on both the right and left feet! (I used this guide: http://ontheedgepei.com/wp-content/uploads/Left-Right%20Foot%20Sizing%20Guide.png.pdf) It's just that the ball of one foot is wider than the other (the wider foot is also shorter)...

EDIT: Jackson Classique 5C (not the model I want to buy - am interested in Freestyles) has the right width (or maybe just a little too wide) for my right foot in an unbaked state, no pinching on a particular site (although the leather is kinda heavy and stiff and pushes down on the foot in all directions). Will that keep even with heat molding?

not DD, DS.  But, I'm not the only one on the Board who has made reference to it; and I am aware of other skaters in our club and elsewhere, in current Freestyles and up (Jackson is falling into disfavour in our region, so they are not used in any particular way above Freestyle; even the Freestyles have dropped from what I would say would be 75% of the market 5 years ago to maybe 10%), that have had similar issues, usually pop up about 6 weeks in, depending on use.  We stopped using Jacksons a few years ago, ourselves. 

[sampaguita]

Sk8tmum: Interesting -- what boots are your DS now in?

EDIT: saw your post a year or two ago -- seems like your DS/DD are in Riedells and Klingbeils. Have you had any problem with the heels of Riedell? And as for your DD, what is it about her heel that makes her fit a Riedell last?

[Sk8tmum]

Sk8tmum: Interesting -- what boots are your DS now in?

EDIT: saw your post a year or two ago -- seems like your DS/DD are in Riedells and Klingbeils. Have you had any problem with the heels of Riedell? And as for your DD, what is it about her heel that makes her fit a Riedell last?

Riedells we have had absolutely no problems at all.  She has a "Riedell foot" in that their last fits the shape of her foot and ankle with no adjustments, and the toebox is high enough.  Plus, we can get split widths at no cost.  Both of my daughter's wear Riedells, very successfully.  In terms of the shape of the heel ... hmmm ... I know that when we did use Jackson, they always had to reshape the heel component to make it "higher" at the back, as the Jacksons heel pressed on her Achilles. Also, she is in the topend Riedells, which have heel locks, which helps keep narrow heels down in the boots. However, I do know other skaters who cannot fit Riedell comfortably at all .. they have found joy in Graf, Wifa, SpTeri, etc.

My DS doesn't fit stock boots, has to wear customs, in part due to the achilles tendon inflammation from the Jacksons. So, not really a fair comparator for other skaters! 

[sampaguita]

Sk8tmum: A, so Jackson heels are too narrow for your daughter? How about the ball of her foot, did it fit Jackson well, or did it fit Riedell better? Thanks!

[Sk8tmum]

Sk8tmum: A, so Jackson heels are too narrow for your daughter? How about the ball of her foot, did it fit Jackson well, or did it fit Riedell better? Thanks!

Toe box too shallow, heels not deep enough.  Need split widths, with Reidell's, free.  Also riedell was lighter in weight.  She has an A/AAA split width skate.  It's pretty basic.  They tried on Reidell's, they fit with no adjustment and we were done.  Jacksons were never narrow enough as they weren't doing split widths and we always had to play around with punching etc, plus the heels opened up and started slipping.

[sarahspins]

Sk8tmum: A, so Jackson heels are too narrow for your daughter? How about the ball of her foot, did it fit Jackson well, or did it fit Riedell better? Thanks!

I think she was saying more that Jackson heels simply don't come wide enough - that's a common complaint with them.  It's not a big deal if you have a wider heel, but for someone with very skinny heels it's not going to be a boot that works.

[sampaguita]

I think she was saying more that Jackson heels simply don't come wide enough - that's a common complaint with them.  It's not a big deal if you have a wider heel, but for someone with very skinny heels it's not going to be a boot that works.

Wait -- I thought "wide ball-skinny heel" fits the Jackson last more than Riedell?

Riedell actually told me that they won't recommend a size wider than 4.5B, because I have an A-width heel...I interpreted that as saying "your feet don't really match a Riedell last since the balls of your feet are wider than your heel", but could I have been mistaken?

(aaargh I hate having to buy new boots.)

[Sk8tmum]

Wait -- I thought "wide ball-skinny heel" fits the Jackson last more than Riedell?

Riedell actually told me that they won't recommend a size wider than 4.5B, because I have an A-width heel...I interpreted that as saying "your feet don't really match a Riedell last since the balls of your feet are wider than your heel", but could I have been mistaken?

(aaargh I hate having to buy new boots.)

You have to try them to know if they fit.  Riedell does very wide withs, and they will do split widths for a nominal charge if it's more than I think 3 degrees of seperation. Why not look at their website; it's got a good overview of their range. 

If you think about it, pretty much everyone has a wider ball than ankle.  In my DD's case, it's just that both are narrower normal.  A Riedell last is more than a width, etc, it's also the shape of the heel, the "cant" of the skate, the height of the heel,  the shape of the toe box, the way the ankles fit both at the heel and at the ankle etc etc etc.

[sarahspins]

Wait -- I thought "wide ball-skinny heel" fits the Jackson last more than Riedell?

It does, but not if you have REALLY skinny heels.  Jacksons are also not known for fitting very narrow feet either.  And I realize that when I posted last night I meant to say they don't come narrow enough.

There's a lot more to fit than just the width though - as Sk8tmum mentions, the curve of the heel and a bunch of other factors also make a difference. 

[sampaguita]

It does, but not if you have REALLY skinny heels.  Jacksons are also not known for fitting very narrow feet either.  And I realize that when I posted last night I meant to say they don't come narrow enough.

Oh, that explains my confusion. Thanks for clarifying.

Sorry for asking this sarahspins - Jackson Marketing hasn't been exactly as helpful as Riedell.  Are Jackson heels one step narrower than the ball (e.g., C ball, B heel)? Riedell said that their stock boots have that, but I don't understand how Riedell could be "narrow" if Jackson does the same thing...

[Sk8tmum]

Oh, that explains my confusion. Thanks for clarifying.

Sorry for asking this sarahspins - Jackson Marketing hasn't been exactly as helpful as Riedell.  Are Jackson heels one step narrower than the ball (e.g., C ball, B heel)? Riedell said that their stock boots have that, but I don't understand how Riedell could be "narrow" if Jackson does the same thing...

You are having trouble understanding what we mean by a last.  Everybody has a different basic shape for their boots.  In the same way that every different running shoe, boot, dress shoe lasts have a different shape. 

Think about a pair of jeans.  In GAP jeans, I wear a size 10 bootcut. In Levis, a size 8 bootcut - and they both fit exactly the same way on my butt and legs.  However, the GAP pair are more comfortable and fit my waist better, and the cut down through the knee is better for my calves.  A Jackson "shape" in a B isn't the same as a Riedell "shape" in a B because they have different ideas on what a "B" should be cut as, and where the curve out should be and how it is shaped etc, same way as a GAP bootcut has a different shaping than a Levis bootcut. Same way that we all have to suffer through trying on different bras to figure out which "C" cup fits our shape best, we all have to figure out which manufacturer and which style fit our "girls" the best by trial and error ...

I also wear a size AAA in one dress shoe, a B in another, and an A in another brand.  And I'm a size 5'1/2 in one, and go up to a 7 in another. It all depends on the maker and the style of the shoe.

Forget about the whole "narrow" thing for Riedell. Hunt through the boards for discussions on this. Riedell fits short, fat, long, narrow, different types of feet. It just happens that those short, or fat, or long, or narrow feet happen to fit the Riedell last. Nobody can tell you what boot will fit your feet except a fitter who has your feet and the skates to hand.

[sarahspins]

There's a video somewhere where it's explained that by default the Jackson heels are one width narrower than the balls... so a stock "C" width has a "B" width heel... however to some degree I think it just makes things more confusing.

But as stated, just because this pattern is the same with many boot makers, doesn't mean the boots will fit the same at the same size.  I think any brand can fit a fairly wide "range" of feet - the problem is that you really just don't know what is best for until you try.

I would still assume however, that given the wear pattern in your current skates, they don't fit you as well as they could.  Whether that is simply a sizing issue (length or width) or a brand fit issue is all but impossible to determine from discussing it online.

[sampaguita]

I see, sarahspins. Thank you very much!

EDIT: Sk8tmum! Just saw your reply. Thank you! Unfortunately where I live, fitters swear by the brands that they sell and by the sizes that they stock. The first shop told me that my feet looked "normal", so they would fit Jackson width C (the only width that they stock). The second fitter only sold Edea boots, which he knows a lot about, but he doesn't like Jackson and he doesn't sell Riedell. I just have to hope and pray that whatever boots I order works for me.

[Bunny Hop]

Forget about the whole "narrow" thing for Riedell. Hunt through the boards for discussions on this. Riedell fits short, fat, long, narrow, different types of feet. It just happens that those short, or fat, or long, or narrow feet happen to fit the Riedell last. Nobody can tell you what boot will fit your feet except a fitter who has your feet and the skates to hand.

^^This!! By all accounts I shouldn't find Riedell boots comfortable because they allegedly run narrow, and I don't have a narrow foot, but their medium width (not even wide!) boot fits me just fine. So I always treat claims that certain brands fit certain types of feet with a grain of salt. You just need to find the one that fits you.

Unfortunately where I live, fitters swear by the brands that they sell and by the sizes that they stock. The first shop told me that my feet looked "normal", so they would fit Jackson width C (the only width that they stock). The second fitter only sold Edea boots, which he knows a lot about, but he doesn't like Jackson and he doesn't sell Riedell. I just have to hope and pray that whatever boots I order works for me.

Been down that road as well - a fitter who pushed whichever brand he had in stock. I ended up selling the boots on Ebay and going elswhere. The second time I was luckier - better fitter with a wider range. It's difficult when there's only a limited number of places you can go.