Spread Eagle or Ina Bauer?

[sampaguita]

Which is harder? And which direction (e.g., right foot forward) is easier?

[fsk8r]

Depends on the individual. Generally if you can do an outside spreadeagle you'll be able to do an outside ina bauer with the outside edge being the hardest to attain because it requires the most turnout.

[jjane45]

Which is harder? And which direction (e.g., right foot forward) is easier?

I have open hips and both in the simplest form came very naturally. To get them right was the struggle:

Eagle: to not stick out the rear, to enter from back crossovers and maintain speed.

Bauer: to maintain deep outside edge so it goes around instead of straight, to achieve deep layback position, to enter fromback crossovers.

In this sense Bauer was much harder for me, tons of splats to find out my limits for edge control and backbend.

There was an earlier thread discussing the relationship between dominant eagle/Bauer direction and jump/spin direction. It looks like whether one leads with right leg or left leg depends more on turnout, regardless of cw/ccw skating.

[FigureSpins]

IMO:

FI Spreadeagle - easiest and if I think about it, I can do it in both directions. 
Ina Bauer - Have to really stretch and practice, but I can do it in my dominant direction after a while.
FO Spreadeagle - never had it, I doubt I ever will, but I don't really work on it much.

My preferred direction is with the right foot leading.  I am primarily a CCW skater, although I can do some spins and jumps in both directions.

My kids made up a drill for FI spreadeagles:
. start near some marker - a dot, a line, etc.
. Do your preferred FI spreadeagle in a full circle
. Return to the starting point and change direction so the opposite foot is leading
. Do a FI spreadeagle in a full circle.

I've tried it and it really works well - after 3-4 rounds, the weak side spreadeagle isn't as difficult.

[irenar5]

I have very closed hips, so neither move is possible for me.  I have stretched religiously for the past 2 years EVERY DAY, holding various stretches to open hips for 3 sets of 30 sec. 
Result:  I can do a "baby" FI spreadeagle that goes around a very small circle with right foot leading.  For my baby Ina Bauer I lead with the left foot.

One of the adult skaters at my rink is an older pre-bronze gentleman that does FI SE like there is no tomorrow- both ways!  His advice to me was: "Just open and turn out your hips!".  If only it was THAT easy!

[rosereedy]

I have a really good outside SE going from back crossovers.  Very easy and very natural for me.  IB are ok.  I don't have that nice back bend that makes them look so pretty.  I really want to learn to do inside and flat SE and connect them to outside ones.  I have to work on it though.   

[sampaguita]

How do you know if you have open or closed hips? I can do a spread-eagle position with no boots on, but with boots, it's a lot harder...

[fsk8r]

How do you know if you have open or closed hips? I can do a spread-eagle position with no boots on, but with boots, it's a lot harder...

As long as you're not twisting your knees to get the position off the ice, it should be a matter of building up sufficient strength to hold the boots in that position. Or that's my theory anyway, I've got sufficient turnout without boots which matches my sisters and she's managed to master the outside spread and I'm still working on it. I don't practice it consistently enough.

[jjane45]

As long as you're not twisting your knees to get the position off the ice...

It's not the most appropriate position, but to warm up the hips without twisting the knees, I press the inside of my knees against the boards and push hips toward the boards. The same could also be done in the bed with the inside of knees facing down.

Sadly for me spread eagles always use a bit knee twisting, although I am sure most of it comes from the hips. But the bent knees variation (besti squat?) is much gentler on the knees, hence easier and MUCH faster for me. Not the most lady-like position, but worth a try?

[VAsk8r]

Would holding a first position off-ice help with these? I am horrible at anything that requires "opening the hips." It's frustrating because I did ballet when I was a kid and had no issues at all with turnouts.

[Adultsk8r509]

I did them  both in my youth, better to the right...but since my knee surgeries I haven't been able to get into position.  Need some more stretching and strengthening at the gym.

[Doubletoe]

It's not the most appropriate position, but to warm up the hips without twisting the knees, I press the inside of my knees against the boards and push hips toward the boards.

^ YES.  Even though I've been doing outside spread eagles and Ina Bauers for years, I still always do plies against the boards to open up my hips before doing them on the ice.  Turn your feet out with insteps of the feet against the boards, bend your knees and press the insides of knees against the boards as you slowly straighten the knees and press your pelvis toward the boards.  This forces your knees to face the same direction as your toes and minimizes strain on the knees as you open the hips.  Until you can straighten your legs with 180-degree turnout and butt tucked under you (pelvis pushed forward), don't try the spread eagle, as you could strain your knees.  If you just can't do the position with any amount of stretching, you probably have "closed hips", meaning your hip joints are located farther to the inside than those with "open hips" and there's nothing you can do about it.

Incidentally, I can only do my spread eagles and Ina Bauers with my right foot leading.  Maybe the right hip is more open than the left?  Then again, I also have my right foot in front when I ride a skateboard.  I am a CCW skater and I don't think there's any correlation.

[PinkLaces]

Inside spread eagles - no problem.  Bauers are getting better. I can do straight for about a 12-18" then my left foot falls to the inside edge.  I skate CW.  Inside spread eagles I do with the right foot leading.  Bauers I do with the left foot leading.

And I keep thinking that someday I will have an outside spread eagle. I can do the turn out off ice, but am to scared to lean back enouogh.  I have the same issue with the outside mohawks on the 8 step-mohawk pattern.

[jjane45]

I can do the turn out off ice, but am to scared to lean back enouogh.  I have the same issue with the outside mohawks on the 8 step-mohawk pattern.

When I first started the eagles, there was absolutely no lean back, I simply stick my rear out... lol.

[Adultsk8r509]

When I first started the eagles, there was absolutely no lean back, I simply stick my rear out... lol.

I tried one today ... several actually.  Held 1 out of 5 in a straight line with my butt sticking out... the other 4 were on inside edges (not by choice)

[Doubletoe]

And I keep thinking that someday I will have an outside spread eagle. I can do the turn out off ice, but am to scared to lean back enouogh.  I have the same issue with the outside mohawks on the 8 step-mohawk pattern.

You don't really need to lean back; just push your pelvis forward and pull your leading shoulder back, looking over that shoulder in the direction of travel.

[PinkLaces]

Thanks for the tips on the spread eagle.  My coach is not much help as she never was able to bauers or spread eagles.  I'm going to try all of the tips tonight.

[jjane45]

Thanks for the tips on the spread eagle.  My coach is not much help as she never was able to bauers or spread eagles.  I'm going to try all of the tips tonight.

I also had a hard time finding coaches to show me the back crossover entry for both. The elite skaters make it look so easy but it's really difficult to figure out with limited speed going in...