Skating Programs: Coach, Skater or Collaboration?

[Adultsk8r509]

So ok, maybe this is presumptuous of me, but I think I am going to pass my first MITF and Free Skate Test coming up on 3/27/12.  (Adult Pre Bronze)
What next?  Obviously I am going to move on.. start working on Bronze moves and trying to learn new elements and enter competitions when I can. If I pass Pre Bronze I can do a competition and "skate up" to Bronze.

This means putting together a program.  When I was 11 years old and preparing a Pre-Prelim program is was all my coach.  I didn't have the sense to know what all the required elements were or the finesse to string them together artistically.

Now I think I could conceivably:
1. Find and cut a piece of suitable music to the right length (1:50)
2. Make a list of the required elements and connect them
3. Then show it to my coach and see what she says......

I'm curious what other Adult Skaters are doing. 

No fair peeking at the results ... unless you vote!!!

[FigureSpins]

I didn't vote because I don't compete any more.  When I did (as an adult) I chose the music and often cut it, but the coach did most of the choreography.  I double-checked the requirements, but there really was no need: my coach had a talent for getting everything in place on the first try, plus a few "uncaptured maneuvers" that garnered extra points.

As a coach myself, I suggest a few options, then cut the chosen music and burn CD's.  I also do a preliminary placement of required elements in the program along with some notes like "some form of footwork into a jump sequence", but I ask my experienced skaters to bring their brains to the on-ice sessions.  There, they can say "Can we add a catchfoot spiral?" "How about I do RFI3-XB-Mohawk-Chasse'-LFO3-Falling Leaf here where it says 'some form of footwork' and I can add a Toe Loop-Salchow sequence?"  This way, they take ownership and they'll include things that they're confident about.  That brings out their personality and style.

[FigureSpins]

What tests have you already taken?  Did you pass Pre-Preliminary Free Skate?  If so, you might not have to take the Pre-Bronze test at all. 

Check the USFSA Members Only site to see if your already-completed tests are on your record:  https://www.usfsaonline.org/IntraLock/Login.asp?targetpath=%2Fdefault%2Easp
(You might have to ask for a Username and Password - follow the link.)

When I first logged into that site, I was shocked to see that I was given credit for an Ice Dance test.  I don't remember taking it, but someone from my old Club remembers my passing the test.  (He was probably surprised that I passed!  I'm a terrible ice dancer.)

[Adultsk8r509]

What tests have you already taken?  Did you pass Pre-Preliminary Free Skate?  If so, you might not have to take the Pre-Bronze test at all. 

No, I took the Pre-Prelim FIGURE TEST and I got nervous and chickened out for my Free Skate.  It was 41 years ago!!!!!!!!! 

[Skittl1321]

Coach did the program- I said I tweaked his ideas because occasionally I would say thinks like "um- there is no way that is happening..." and suggest something else.  Or he'd show me the next sequence, and I'd point out to him that I skate the other way- so the steps would need to take me in the opposite direction.  Or I'd point out that putting the sit spin at the end has wonderful effect, but I'd be so tired by then, could it be a scratch spin instead?  I would also remind him which elements were needed for my level "uh, we don't have a salchow yet..." because he is more familar with standard track.

I worked with a choreographer (ahem, a high school skater who does great artistics) for my artistic program- and she did most of it, but it was very collaborative, because she didn't know well what skills I was able to do.


For both, I did the costuming, and I did the music cutting.

Just FYI- 1:50 is the music length for Bronze.  If you've never passed a test, you can skate pre-bronze (1:40), and that is considered skating up.

[Skittl1321]

What tests have you already taken?  Did you pass Pre-Preliminary Free Skate?  If so, you might not have to take the Pre-Bronze test at all. 

According to the test rulebook, you have to have passed Preliminary Free Skate to skip Adult Pre-Bronze. 
TR 26.02 B

[FigureSpins]

No, I took the Pre-Prelim FIGURE TEST and I got nervous and chickened out for my Free Skate.  It was 41 years ago!!!!!!!!! 

Oh, okay. I was just curious since you said you skated Pre-Preliminary programs.  There are some grandfathering-type clauses between Figures/Standard Track Freeskate and Adult MITF/Free Skate.

If you had passed Pre-Prelim, you could skate up to Bronze in non-qualifying competitions. For Adult Sectionals and Nationals qualifying events, you still have to test, but it sounds like you want to do local competitions.

[Sierra]

The music you could probably do (lots of adult skaters pick their own music). But a program is much more than just connecting the required elements, you'd be better off doing it with coach and learning about choreography along the way. For the majority of skaters, coaches choreograph their programs.

I'm a teen so I probably have less authority with a coach than an adult would. But I do cut my own music and bring it in to see if coach approves. Then she choreographs pretty much all of it herself, though picking what jumps/spins to do is probably about 50/50% collaborative between her and me. I don't really have input on transitions.

[irenar5]

I bring the music (my husband is the composer and tailors the piece to my time specs:-).

My coach used to do show skating, so she is very good at choreographing.  I prefer her to do all the choreo.  Frequently during the process there are things I think i will never be able to do, but after a week's practice they fall into place.  Occasionally after having practiced something, it still feels awkward, so we change it.  So, I would say it is 80/20 distribution with her being the 80%.  
Before we begin, she asks me if there are any elements I would like to put in, so she finds a place for them in the program.  All in all, she is much better at it than I am, and it is always fun to learn new choreography!

[icedancer]

Just FYI - There is no pre-Preliminary figures test.  It starts with Preliminary.

[sarahspins]

For my bronze test, I selected and cut my music, handed it to my coach and basically said "I want to put together a bronze test program with this" and we've collaboratively worked on it from there.  By collaboratively I mean she usually suggests something insane and I have to scale her ambition back a bit to something I am more comfortable with.  Occasionally I've had a suggestion that we went with, but mostly it has been adapting her ideas to fit me better.

4 months later it is STILL a work in progress (mostly in the details - arms and posture in transitions), but it is finished enough that I could test with it now if I got the rest of my tests out of the way.

As I kid I remember pretty much just picking my music and my coach did the rest.  As an adult I'm much more opinionated about what I want/don't want to do.

[aussieskater]

I test compulsory dance so there's no option that really fits LOL!  The program and music are dictated; about the only thing I get to choose is what I wear.  Even that's not a choice - I have one test dress.

For synchro, coach chooses the music, although we do have some say - one year we pretty much went on strike and said "we are not skating to that", and by consensus came up with an alternative.  Choreo is done by coach, but he takes on board suggestions we make.  Not all suggestions are incorporated, but he does at least listen!

[Adultsk8r509]

Just FYI- 1:50 is the music length for Bronze.  If you've never passed a test, you can skate pre-bronze (1:40), and that is considered skating up.
[/quote] I won't even enter a competition until I have already passed the Pre Bronze.  I am sort of counting on passing it....

[Adultsk8r509]

According to the test rulebook, you have to have passed Preliminary Free Skate to skip Adult Pre-Bronze. 
TR 26.02 B

Sorry I didn't mean I was skipping.  I am taking Adult Pre Bronze and then plan to compete (possibly) prior to taking my Bronze tests, in the Bronze level.

[Skittl1321]

Just FYI- 1:50 is the music length for Bronze.  If you've never passed a test, you can skate pre-bronze (1:40), and that is considered skating up.
I won't even enter a competition until I have already passed the Pre Bronze.  I am sort of counting on passing it....

Pre-bronze is a no program test, just go do the elements.  You will have NO problem at all passing the freeskate.  I would bet the MITF are not too much of a problem for you either. 

However, at least for us, there are a lot more competition options than tests, so if you don't have the chance to take a test, you COULD compete pre-bronze before taking any tests. 

(I wasn't refering to you skipping- merely mentioning the crossover mentioned by another poster is preliminary to adult pre-bronze, not pre-preliminary)

[Adultsk8r509]

Just FYI - There is no pre-Preliminary figures test.  It starts with Preliminary.

Yea you are right.  When I started my blog I was writing about my skating background .. and since it was 41 years ago that I was a kid skater... I couldn't really remember. I know I had to skate figures (they were different then it was RFO-LFO-RFO-LFO-RFO-LFO ... I thought it was 3 traces, then insides, then waltz 8 ... my memory is waning. I wonder if there is a resource out there to see what the 1970 rulebooks said!

[hopskipjump]

Not an adult but....  I like that coaches often start your routine with things you can't or "almost" can do - things you are not at 90% proficient with doing.  I think most people would want to be in their comfort zone if they were creating for themselves.  Having a coach create it might place you in a position where you feel an extra push to move along faster.  Usually dd's routines start with things that she can't do.  Sometimes she learns them well and gets to perform them.  Other times a few weeks before a comp, it is scaled back.  But all season she keeps working on the hard stuff so she is constantly progressing. 

Our coach is a creative choreographer and knows how to highlight a skater well.  She is the professional.

[Sk8tmum]

Need another "button" for choreographer- who - is - not - your - coach.  We use an outside choreo for all of our programs.

[Skittl1321]

Need another "button" for choreographer- who - is - not - your - coach.  We use an outside choreo for all of our programs.

There is a choreographer option.

[treesprite]

Last time I skated a program was 30+ years ago when I was a teenager.  I picked the music and my coach did the choreography.  As an adult if I was going to do a program, I think I would like to be given a guideline for what to put in what sections of the program, then work out the specific details myself, then have someone help me refine.

[sarahspins]

I wonder if there is a resource out there to see what the 1970 rulebooks said!

I'd contact USFSA, they may be able to help you figure out what was on the test back then, or at the very least they will be able to look up your membership information including any tests passed and the dates and provide you with your membership number so all of that will still apply towards you now when you rejoin.  They did all that for me, even though I am not a current member (and it only took a couple of days to hear back, too - I think technically the membership secretary of any club can look this up too).  If nothing else it will assure when I re-join that I get signed up as the correct person, since I also currently have a basic skills membership under my married name.

Anyways, the test requirements for pre-bronze are really basic and the jump requirements are not as specific as for the standard track tests:

TR 32.09 Adult Pre-Bronze Free Skate Test
The purpose of this test is to encourage beginning adult skaters to learn the
fundamentals of free skating. No great deal of technical ability, carriage or flow
is expected. The candidate must show knowledge of the elements, fairly good
edges and some evidence of good form. The following technical elements are to
be skated individually, without music.
Jumps: Two different jumps, either one-half or one full revolution
Spins:
1. A one-foot upright spin (minimum 3 revolutions in position)
2. A two-foot upright spin (minimum 3 revolutions in position)
Steps:
1. Crossovers — forward and backward (either direction)
2. Lunge or spiral

Based on that I think you can pass that one easily, which means you can "skate up" to bronze in competition before or while you are preparing to test that level.  I plan on testing through Bronze just so I can compete in Silver - I doubt I'll ever test through Silver FS or want to compete in Gold.  I do plan on testing Silver and Gold moves at some point though.. I'd like to eventually get all the way through Senior.

[Adultsk8r509]

I'd contact USFSA, they may be able to help you figure out what was on the test back then, or at the very least they will be able to look up your membership information including any tests passed and the dates and provide you with your membership number so all of that will still apply towards you now when you rejoin. 

Thanks Sarah, I'm already a member - I've got a test book. I didn't think to have them check my old number... geez it would probably only be 4 digits!  I never passed a test completely, but I had to have been registered then because I entered a test and I was a member of the local FSC and that probably covered my USFSA membership. Why are we up so late ?  I have to skate tomorrow!

[karne]

My first programs were 100% my coach, but I always cut the music.

Now I have more input into the development.

[Skate@Delaware]

Just FYI- 1:50 is the music length for Bronze.  If you've never passed a test, you can skate pre-bronze (1:40), and that is considered skating up.
I won't even enter a competition until I have already passed the Pre Bronze.  I am sort of counting on passing it....

You can compete under "no test" until you pass your PB freestyle test.

[Skittl1321]

You can compete under "no test" until you pass your PB freestyle test.

Almost every competition lets you skate up a level too, so you can compete PB without the test.