Outside Mohawks (SF: 10/2006)

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cassarilda

10-22-2006, 02:10 AM

Well, I managed to do some outside mohawks last week.. YAY!!! :bow:

I of course thought they were somethng different :roll: , but once I was corrected I was told that they are still pretty tricky...

I just need someone to tell me that I did good, considering I couldnt do them at all before I stopped skating 3-4months ago.. and had only been skating for 3 or so months prior to that


Also, does anyone have any tips on how to improve them? Im actually thinking I prefer them to inside ones.. Maybe Im just dillusional since I havent skated since Tuesday and Im still hung over on the joy of getting them


And also, maybe this post is just cos I miss it all, and I cant go skating again until Tuesday cos of chemo side effects, and I want to feel 'part of it' again.. cant wait until I can go whenever.

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SkatingOnClouds

10-22-2006, 02:17 AM

How do you do an outside mohawk? I've read others on this forum talking about them, but I have never tried one.

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cassarilda

10-22-2006, 02:28 AM

Someone else will probably be able to describe it better than I can...

Instead of an inside to inside edge two foot turn, which is an inside mohawk,.. Outside mohawks are outside edge to outside edge.. preferred by dancers.. so my dancing husband tells me..

This might help?
Wikipedia comes to the rescue - Mohawks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohawk_turn)

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Mrs Redboots

10-22-2006, 04:38 AM

Or hated by dancers, depending on which way you look at it! At least, by this dancer.... The Foxtrot mohawk is a truly evil beastie, as you have to step down behind your skating foot. The 14-step one, which many people loathe, I find easier - you put your free foot down to the instep of your skating foot.

Husband is doing the dance move which consists of outside Mohawks on both sides and is having serious trouble with it - I think he over-checks with his shoulders or something, because it looks most weird.

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cassarilda

10-22-2006, 04:42 AM

I think Im doing the step behind one

Putting your feet almost as if youre doing a plie? Doing dance for 20yrs (on and off) probably helps with hip turn out, hence why its easier..

Does anyone know of a good video or diagram for feet positioning? I might take my video camera down on Tuesday and video hubby doing the different versions

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Skate@Delaware

10-22-2006, 07:15 AM

the way it's been explained to me: the free foot is placed either at the instep or at the heel of the skating foot. When you are about ready to switch feet, the toe of the free foot hits the ice first and your body sort of swivels.

When I'm doing outside mohawks on the left, it takes 1,000% more effort to get onto that outside edge when I switch feet-it's been frustrating! My inside mohawks are a bit better (just a smidgen).

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cassarilda

10-22-2006, 09:15 AM

I think Ive figured it out...

Open mohawks are when your foot ends BEHIND you at the end.. or when you place your foot in your instep to initiate the turn...

Closed are when your foot ends up IN FRONT of you at the end... when you place your foot at the heel to intiate the turn...

So I naturally do open inside mohawks and closed outside mohawks :roll: :lol: I think I just like being difficult :lol:


Anyone got any good tips, other than "keep practising" ??

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Joan

10-22-2006, 08:37 PM

Hey, if anyone has a magic trick for this, PLEASE post it! My feet/knees/hips don't turn out much and i'm having trouble with the outside mohawk.

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cassarilda

10-22-2006, 08:59 PM

ummm do ballet? :roll: :halo:

There are a few exercises you can do to improve turn out... simple google search will bring up a few...

I also find though Joan, and Ive been told, that you REALLY need to bend your knees as you do it...

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jenlyon60

10-22-2006, 09:05 PM

you can do an outside mohawk with the "new" skating foot at a right angle (90 degrees) to the "old" skating foot.

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d b n y

10-22-2006, 11:08 PM

you can do an outside mohawk with the "new" skating foot at a right angle (90 degrees) to the "old" skating foot.

But if you don't swivel your hips fast enough, and get that "old" skating foot off the ice fast enough, you are going to hit the ice like it is a brick wall. These things are a piece of cake for those with good turnout, and torture for those with next to none.

My trick for them is to rotate well before the turn, so that your back is to the circle and your skating arm of the entry foot is leading. Lean back into the circle. The 8 step Mohawk pattern in Juv moves is a good way to learn these, IMO, because you can rotate on step 2, the FXO. Because you count the steps in an even rhythm, it helps you be prepared and get that "old" foot off the ice in time. Another way to approach these is to do them two footed, as if you were doing two footed brackets. That get the rotation right before you tackle the feet.

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vesperholly

10-23-2006, 04:00 AM

Anyone got any good tips, other than "keep practising" ??
KNEE BEND.

Outside mohawks don't really require open hips and fantastic turn out, so don't pigeonhole yourself. What they do require is a solid counter check on the FO edge, and a quick reverse check on the BO edge.

Start on FO edge with your skating side arm forward. Swing your free foot forward and twist your body back so you are open, facing to the side of your free foot. Your skating knee should be deeply bent. Bring your free foot back, bending the knee and keeping the foot turned out. Continue bringing the free foot back until the big toe of your free foot is 90 degrees to your skating heel, and step onto the free foot BO edge. While you are bringing your free foot back, you should be rotating your upper body to the opposite counter check - free side arm back.

Think of it as your body twisting against yourself - on a RFO mohawk, your top half is going to rotate counter clockwise and your bottom half is going to rotate clockwise.

I found an old video of me doing a RFO mohawk, maybe this will help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2Uy3ogtM2U

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cassarilda

10-23-2006, 08:46 AM

Thanks vesperholly, that helped a lot... I definately look different to you :lol: practise practise practise...

Im going to the rink tomorrow !!! :bow: :bow: :bow:

Very happy So I shall try some more

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doubletoe

10-23-2006, 01:02 PM

You don't need that much turnout, just control over your shoulders and your lean, and an awareness of your hip and free leg position. Specifically, keep your leading shoulder pulled way back and keep the leading hip and foot turned out 90 degrees after you step down onto the other foot.
For example, on the LFO mohawk (as performed in the 8-step mohawk sequence on Juv/Silver MIF), step onto a LFO edge with the left shoulder leading and leaning into the circle. Bring the right heel into the left instep and lift the left foot off the ice, keeping it at the right heel and at a 90-degree angle to the right foot, with the knee opened out at 90-degrees as well. Meanwhile, keep the left shoulder pulled way so that your back continues to face the inside of the circle. That will keep you on an outside edge after you've stepped down backards onto the right foot.

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Isk8NYC

10-23-2006, 01:07 PM

You don't need that much turnout, just control over your shoulders and your lean, and an awareness of your hip and free leg position.This is a really good point: too many people try to do things without leaning in the proper direction. I introduced "lean" drills with my Basic 7/8 students and it's been so productive that I've brought simplified drills down to the lower level kids. They don't do them as well, but they are learning to trust themselves. Crossovers (both ways) have become so much easier to teach once they've mastered the "lean."

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mdvask8r

10-23-2006, 01:27 PM

This is a really good point: too many people try to do things without leaning in the proper direction. I introduced "lean" drills with my Basic 7/8 students . . . .
Oh, please share your lean drills!

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Skate@Delaware

10-23-2006, 01:36 PM

Oh, please share your lean drills!
I have a heck of a time with outside edge mohawks (going ccw) so my coach has me hit the circle, skate facing outside and lean into the circle on that edge with my free foot at the heel of my skating foot...arms really open which helps a lot more than I thought it would and looking forward. When I'm good and ready, I look into the direction I came from (which is shifting my weight) and put my free foot down onto the ice, while extending my newly freed foot behind me...while still leaning into the circle (because I still somehow manage to get onto that durn inside edge, but not as often). Knee bend helps also (duh!)...these are hard and she has me do them faster and faster...8O

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Team Arthritis

10-23-2006, 03:06 PM

I think Ive figured it out...

Open mohawks are when your foot ends BEHIND you at the end.. or when you place your foot in your instep to initiate the turn...

Closed are when your foot ends up IN FRONT of you at the end... when you place your foot at the heel to intiate the turn...



ummm someone correct me if you sure this is right but if you read the USFSA Rulebook an open MO is when you step the freeskate heel to skating foot instep and a closed MO is when you step freeskate instep to skating foot's heel.
Lyle

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icedancer2

10-23-2006, 07:57 PM

ummm someone correct me if you sure this is right but if you read the USFSA Rulebook an open MO is when you step the freeskate heel to skating foot instep and a closed MO is when you step freeskate instep to skating foot's heel.
Lyle

Yes, this is correct.

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russiet

10-24-2006, 05:53 AM

My summer was spent on inline Pic skates (no ice :cry: ). The wheels are a lot less forgiving to errors on the outside Mohawk.

I practiced the 8-step Mohawk on the inlines all summer long. Now that I'm back on ice I got a dramatic improvement on the outside Mohawk.

I don't reccommend that you drop the ice and get on wheels. Just my observation.

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Mrs Redboots

10-24-2006, 07:30 AM

Oh, please share your lean drills!SECONDED! This is exactly what Husband and I are working on, together and separately, right now, so the more exercises & drills we have, the better.

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Isk8NYC

10-24-2006, 02:57 PM

Re: Lean Drills
I've started a new thread for those who asked for these.

http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?p=294322

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Mrs Redboots

10-24-2006, 04:28 PM

Re: Lean Drills
I've started a new thread for those who asked for these.

http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?p=294322Thank you.

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miraclegro

10-24-2006, 04:38 PM

Doubletoe,

You are so GOOD at explaining everything...one day maybe i'll get to meet you in person! You could probably correct a lot of my technical stuff!

When i was really learning the outside mohawk, it was in the 8-step Mohawk i had to work on it so very much, but eventually got it. I don't have much turn out at all, but found it really is in the knee bend and in the shoulders. Working on it on the circle really helps figure it out!

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d b n y

10-24-2006, 05:04 PM

Of course good turn out is not necessary, but it definitely does make certain moves much easier. To those of you who to say it doesn't matter - what is your turn out like?

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doubletoe

10-24-2006, 06:50 PM

Doubletoe,

You are so GOOD at explaining everything...one day maybe i'll get to meet you in person! You could probably correct a lot of my technical stuff!

When i was really learning the outside mohawk, it was in the 8-step Mohawk i had to work on it so very much, but eventually got it. I don't have much turn out at all, but found it really is in the knee bend and in the shoulders. Working on it on the circle really helps figure it out!

Aww, thanks. :oops: :roll:
If only my body always listened to what my brain tried to explain to it, LOL!
Since I have two outside spread eagles in my program, I know I am not in a position to talk about outside mohawks not requiring great turnout. However, I watched my best friend and training partner--who has closed hips--master that 8-step sequence by focusing on her shoulders, knees and free foot position, so I knew it could be done.

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d b n y

10-25-2006, 06:48 PM

Since I have two outside spread eagles in my program, I know I am not in a position to talk about outside mohawks not requiring great turnout. However, I watched my best friend and training partner--who has closed hips--master that 8-step sequence by focusing on her shoulders, knees and free foot position, so I knew it could be done.

Just as I thought . Of course it can be done. I watched my daughter with no turnout learn with a lot of work on her shoulders etc, as you say. However, I also remember some of her falls when she didn't move fast enough, and have taken a few of those myself. It was never a problem for her coach at all, who was comfy on the ice in 5th position. I wasn't saying that it could not be done, but just that what is a piece of cake for some, is quite another matter for others. Guess that's always the case.

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doubletoe

10-25-2006, 09:49 PM

Just as I thought . Of course it can be done. I watched my daughter with no turnout learn with a lot of work on her shoulders etc, as you say. However, I also remember some of her falls when she didn't move fast enough, and have taken a few of those myself. It was never a problem for her coach at all, who was comfy on the ice in 5th position. I wasn't saying that it could not be done, but just that what is a piece of cake for some, is quite another matter for others. Guess that's always the case.

Yes, that's true. I have good turnout but I am a member of the probably-never-have-a-layback club! I have never had any trouble with any sort of mohawk because my turnout allowed me to do it even with bad form. However, while working on the 8-step mohawk sequence for my Silver MIF, I ended up learning the correct technique in spite of myself . . . probably because my coach has closed hips and that's the only way she can do them, LOL! My favorite fall on that move was forgetting to point my toes as I brought my second foot down backwards, planting the heel of my blade into the ice as the rest of me kept going. Worst bruises I ever got!