Forward Spin Entry Hell!!! sf, jazzpants 12-2009

[Isk8NYC]

I'm resurrecting this thread from the archives because it had a ton of great information from many contributors.


Sorry but the links don't work.  I'm still looking for the archived threads.

[Isk8NYC]

12-19-2009, 01:44 AM 
jazzpants 
Registered User   Join Date: May 2002
Location: At the rink!!! (Yeah, don't I wish?)
Posts: 7,046 

Forward Spin Entry HELL!!!

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HELP!!!

I normally go into my forward spins using the back crossovers windup. I'm having a LOT of trouble stepping from the LBI edge with the back free leg crossed to a RFO edge for the windup. I usually end up stepping down from RFI and then flipping it to a RFO edge -- MAJOR NO-NO!!! I have no clue as to how to easily correct this and my secondary coach won't work me on ANY spins until this is fixed.

Any ideas? And yes, I did also have trouble with forward power 3's when I was testing Bronze Moves. (Same problem with stepping down on the that FO edge.) I could only turn my foot and hip so much too!!! I keep hearing about waiting out to complete the lobe in a post somewhere? But for me I feel like I'm so twisted up that I can't see to untwist myself, turn my entire torso (while STILL on the BI edge and then step down to the FO (instead of the FI) edge.
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   12-19-2009, 03:03 AM 
daisies 

Have you tried entering the spin from a forward inside three-turn instead? Sounds like you spin CW, so you'd do a LFI 3, ending up on your LBO edge, then from there step onto the RFO edge for your spin. You'll already be on the outside-edge trajectory instead of having to switch from the inside-edge wind-up.

HTH! 

daisies


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   12-19-2009, 05:14 AM 
fsk8r 

I'm struggling to work out how you're finding the FI edge, but just wondering what angle you're stepping out at from the back edge? I don't turn out that far but make sure that my weight transfers onto the other skate, which forces me onto an outside edge. I probably step forward at about 2 o'clock (I'm a leftie) so 10 o'clock should be about right for a CCW skater. It means that I sort of go back the way I've just come and then start the entry edge.
Don't know if this makes any sense or helps. But sounds like there is probably a weight transfer issue. 

fsk8r

   12-19-2009, 07:04 AM 
Audryb 
Registered User   Join Date: Mar 2008

bend the skating leg, and feel like you're pushing your hips forward and almost leaning back as you step forward to the outside edge. Basically put your body in position for the outside edge before your foot actually gets there. I'm not sure that's the clearest explanation, but this was the best advice ever given to me for the alternating (outside) 3's on the line, which is a similar transition to what you're having trouble with... BI to FO step. 

Audryb


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   12-19-2009, 07:46 AM 
Isk8NYC 
Board Moderator   Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Below the Mason-Dixon Line
Posts: 9,854 

If you feel like you're "getting stuck" on the BI windup edge, it's probably your shoulders. Make sure to keep them level as you check the windup, then press the leading shoulder forward on an angle, but not downward, as you step forward. The 10/2 fs8r mentioned is a good analogy - just don't drop the shoulders. I teach my students to "follow that free arm" to keep them in check as they step forward. Think about pressing your new skating knee forward and keeping your chin and chest above it.

As for stepping forward on the wrong edge/flat - tsk, tsk. I don't blame your coach, that really does need to be fixed ASAP. The spin entry is a different pushoff than the Power 3 pattern. The P3 pattern creates flatter half-circle lobes - the spin entry edge is a tighter, deeper edge.

Before the skate touches the ice, position your foot in the air to push onto that outside edge. Think about stepping forward with your pinky toe pressing down.

Haven't been on the ice with you in a while; I wonder if you've developed the infamous "stop and turn around" on your spin entrances? That's a no-no. I think we have a thread about it somewhere - brb.

ETA:
Great tips and exercises in this thread: http://skating.zachariahs.com/skatingforums-onice/www.skatingforums.com/archive/index.php/t-23310.html

This thread has pictures! 
http://skating.zachariahs.com/skatingforums-onice/www.skatingforums.com/archive/index.php/t-28111.html
(EDIT: It used to have pictures.  In the archived thread, there are two photobucket account links that you can look at.)
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Isk8NYC


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   12-19-2009, 09:17 AM 
kayskate 
Registered User   Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,015 

Quick suggestion. If stepping on the wrong edge is the prob, try doing your xovers and just stepping onto the FO. Don't try the spin for now until you can step the correct edge. Do various skills on the FO to get comfortable. Step to an upright arabesque, spiral, etc. Once you are on the FO, try the FO3.

Kay
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   12-19-2009, 11:16 AM 
Skate@Delaware 
Registered User   Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,723 

I don't roll over to the inside edge, my problem has been stepping outside of the circle. Solution? When I'm ready to step out, my feet are parallel to each other (my boots almost touch) then I step out. Since I'm still curving around, I'm stepping out onto an outside edge.
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   12-19-2009, 11:46 AM 
doubletoe 
Registered User   Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,322 

Try it in slow motion, or rather, stop-motion. First, try the spin entry from a standstill in a T position on a line several times, making sure you make a small half circle with your entrance edge and come back to the line before starting the spin.

Then try it with your windup entry. On your back inside preparatory edge, bend deeply so you make a nice long, round half circle and end with your shoulders twisted so that your chest faces outside the circle at the end. At the end of your half circle (when you feel like you have ridden that edge all the way to the end), keep your shoulders counter-rotated but just turn just your head to look inside the circle. Then step down onto your spinning foot so that your feet are in that same T position you were just doing (although there will be more space between your feet, they should be perpendicular to each other). Still keeping your shoulders counter-rotated (left shoulder pulled back and right arm in front of your chest if you spin CW), bend your skating knee deeply, and THEN push around into the spin entry just like you did from the T stop, leading with a gently sweeping right arm. If you step down and push off in one fluid motion, you probably won't have enough knee bend and you may step down at the wrong angle, which is why it helps to step down, bend, then push.
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   12-20-2009, 10:54 AM 
londonicechamp 
Registered User   Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Singapore
Posts: 717 

Hi jazzpants

I totally agree with Isk8NYC. I think that you may actually have developed the infamous "stop and turn around". I used to have same problem as you when I fast learnt the forward spin. I would do the backward crossovers, then stop, and do the spin, which my coach told me is a definite no-no. 

Recently, as I am a right handed person, my coach managed to fix my problem, by asking me to do a right outside 3 turn, then followed by backward crossovers. I do not have any problem with the entry position now, with the exception that I am still occasionally travelling during the spin.

It is very important to correct this bad habit. I developed loads of bad habits, which coach finds it difficult to correct. Thus when I am not sure of something, I will always check with my coach. 

londonicechamp