What if the judges don't "get" it?

[karne]

So I'm a huge motorsport gal as well as skating, and in particular Formula 1. So when the movie/doco "Senna" came out I just HAD to go and see it.

I came away not only with a greater respect for a late, great champion, but also completely enamoured of the movie's music.

I want to do an artistic program to it, I've even planned the colours/make of my dress, but one thing is making me hesitate.

What if no-one gets it? What if no-one understands that I want to skate a tribute to Ayrton, and not just Ayrton, but to Roland, and Gilles, and Elio, and everyone motor racing has ever lost? What if no-one understands the cut/colour of my dress? (White with navy sleeves and navy skirt for the Williams team, a red underskirt for McLaren, and a blue butterfly on the chest for Roland).

I don't want people to think that it's just random music and a random program. I want to make them feel how I felt when they showed the footage of Ayrton rocketing into the wall. When they showed the footage of Roland saying the car was undriveable. I want to make the audience feel heartbroken and uplifted in the same program. But what if they don't get it?

Link to music to follow when I get home.


/useless ramble


Am I the only one that worries about stuff like that?

[Skittl1321]

I don't know a single person you named in that post, so I probably wouldn't get it the way you wanted.

You need to design an artistic program to do either 2 things 1) Be meaningful to skate it, your emotion is going to be expressed and people will enjoy your skating or 2) Appeal to a very wide range of people who will be entertained because they "get it".

It sounds like this program is meaningful to you, so just skate it.  You may not place well, because they may not understand why it is an interpretive program, but you may place well because it is going to go well, since it means so much to you.


I've been in many judges boxes during artistic events where the judges are saying "do you know what this is about?"  or "who is she supposed to be?"  When Wicked first came out and people were skating to Defying Gravity, judges didn't know why they were the Wicked Witch of the West (there was no reference to Wizard of Oz in the song), now they've seen it and they get it.   A girl skated to music from Anastasia, I thought her costume was spot on- the judges had no clue who she was supposed to be.  Skate for you, not for them.

[hopskipjump]

I am also clueless about it all... i think that most people wouldn't know unless they were both skating and formula 1 fans.

[karne]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR2z46jcePM

The music in question. No matter how I cut it, though, I would keep the engine notes at the end.

[FigureSpins]

My opinion? Don't use this music.  It's blah and no one will "get" it other than the three other people who saw the movie.

Personally, I have never heard of the movie, the artist, character or the song.  The engine notes at the end are bizarre and do nothing to convey the message that "this song is about car racing."  More like "this song is so boring, I got in my car and raced away."  It's jarring and completely out of the blue.

I listened to it twice.  The music itself is boring and repetitive; it's background music that is "more of the same" over and over, never really reaching a climax.  Nothing in it "sounds like" a spin, a jump or a footwork section, so you'll be skating over the music, not skating with the music.  There's really no place to "cut it" that gives you enough time for a skating program, so you'll have to splice it at least twice.  Plus, it's really slow and unless you're a fast, strong skater, it will be boring for the audience as well as the judges.


This music means something to you because of the movie, which is fine, but makes you listen subjectively.  You need more objectivity in listening because you have to assume that the judges have never seen the movie or heard the song.  Good skating music has to have a melody that everyone can hear and follow, variations with highs and lows, and changes throughout that "call out" for different types of elements.

The teenies all want to skate to the latest pop star's song, not realizing it's the vocals (or worse, the heartfelt lyrics) that they love in the song and the music itself is just a synthesized beat track that never varies.  Boring and it doesn't sound good over the loudspeakers - all the judges/audience hear is thumping and the singer's voice, not even the lyrics.  That's not good skating music.


The Harry Potter soundtracks are a great example: a lot of John Williams' songs sound the same and he recycles bits throughout the various albums.  Everyone has heard "Hedwig's Theme" and the always-jaded music critics at the rinks sigh and their eyes when they hear it.  One of my DDs listened to an HP soundtrack and said "I want to skate to this."  It was a jazzy, upbeat song - I don't remember the name - that I really liked.  Her coach cut the music and choreographed the program.  Here's the key: she skated to the music itself; she didn't skate to the movie or the scene.  People were really surprised to find out it was from HP. 

I think you should keep looking.

[Skittl1321]

Here's the key: she skated to the music itself; she didn't skate to the movie or the scene.  People were really surprised to find out it was from HP. 

I think that this is important in freeskate, but not in interpretive/artistic.  In those programs you do skate the movie or the scene, if that's what you want to do.


I also think your response was pretty harsh.  The music wasn't something I would skate to, but it is no more boring than most skating music.  And it means a lot to the poster.  It's an interpretive program, not the Olympics.

But- to her original point, I'll stick with my stance from the first post that they probably won't get it.  But that happens a lot. 

[FigureSpins]

I'm not being harsh - I'm being realistic.  No has spoken up to say "Yeah, I know that movie/song/scene" so replicating it on the ice isn't going to work, even as an artistic.  I thought that piece was dull and boring without comparing it to other music I've heard.  I listened to it twice because my mind wandered halfway through the first play.  I thought I just got distracted by noises outside, but no, it didn't hold my attention at all on the second runthrough. 

As for other skating music being boring, well, that's why I spoke up.  Too many people choose things that are emotional for them, but they can't bring it out in their skating.  You should care what the audience and judges think about your music.  Skating music should involve others, focusing their attention on what the skater is doing.  You can skate beautifully, but if the music's boring you lose the audience's energy.  That energy helps the skater perform better.  I can't speak for judges and what they think about boring skating music.

[Skittl1321]

You can skate beautifully, but if the music's boring you lose the audience's energy.  That energy helps the skater perform better. 

I think emotional attachment helps a skater more than audience energy, especially at the low levels.  My last competition we were the last event.  There were THREE people who stayed in the stands to watch our event.  I really appreciated them staying, but my program was much more about ME enjoying it then them.

I don't know what level karne skates at, but we have very few (any?) national level competitors on our boards, so the concerns are different.

[Sierra]

I also think your response was pretty harsh.  The music wasn't something I would skate to, but it is no more boring than most skating music.  And it means a lot to the poster.  It's an interpretive program, not the Olympics.

But- to her original point, I'll stick with my stance from the first post that they probably won't get it.  But that happens a lot. 

Agreed. Sounds like a lot of other skating music to me.

As for the not-getting-it part, I thought of my club's shows. One year we had a movie theme, and the name of the movie/a snippet of background would be announced before the start of the program, which helped it all come together for the audience.
Any way this could be a possibility- make it a show program? Or is a short vocal track allowed at all in interpretives/artistics? I'm just grabbing at straws. I don't actually know what I'm talking about :angel

[sarahspins]

I think that this is important in freeskate, but not in interpretive/artistic.  In those programs you do skate the movie or the scene, if that's what you want to do.

I'm sorry, but what?

I realize that there may be more emphasis on technical choreography and "skating to the music" in freestyle programs, because that is what is traditionally expected of those, but I think that is EQUALLY important for any artistic/interperative program, the challenge with an artistic program is to really add in the character/artistry/interpretation on top of that - those are what make those programs special.  If the skater really connects with their chosen music that's even better, but to say that the music really doesn't matter and you can go skate whatever you'd like as long as you like the music.. that's all wrong IMO.

I like the music, but I do agree that it's a bit monotonous and not well suited for skating.  The engine revs at the end don't really make sense to me without the context for them.  However, I am assuming this is just one track from the soundtrack?  It's possible there may be other more dramatic pieces of music that could be used.

[FigureSpins]

Agreed. Sounds like a lot of other skating music to me.

That's even more reason to choose music that's not boring or obscure.  Skaters should want the judges to remember them while they're checking their scores.  If the music is boring, the skater is less memorable.  In smaller events, it's not as big an issue, but when there are 12 skaters in the event, it's easy to forget who was who.  In ISI, they encouraged us to put memory-joggers on our sheets so, when we do the score review (6.0), we can remember each skater. 

If the skater really connects with their chosen music that's even better, but to say that the music really doesn't matter and you can go skate whatever you'd like as long as you like the music.. that's all wrong IMO.

In the past, we've had discussions about "What are the judges looking for in Interpretive programs?" specifically for adults because a lot of people feel it's not well-defined.  I have to wonder if what you've said isn't part of that mystery.

[Skittl1321]

I obviously wasn't clear in my wording, because I didn't say music doesn't matter.  In fact, I think the music matter a lot- it needs to be music the skater connects to, or else they can't interpret it.  In a freestyle program, you shouldn't be "acting out the movie", but in artistic, lots of people do just that.


If this skater has a strong connection to this music, a dramatic interpretive program (which is often just emoting to sappy songs) would be appropriate.  It's not about liking the music, but it is about being able to portray a feeling that goes with the music. Based on the feeling in her first post, I think she'll be able to do that.

The judges might not understand why she is connecting sorrow to this music, but they should be able to see the interpretation.


From my experience, finding a good interpretive program is like shooting fish in a barrel.  You just never know what the judges are looking for- you might get first once, and last the next time.  That's why I think it's best just to do the program you like and not worry about what others think.
It's not like freestyle where you have a score you should be able to hit with your best skate, you generally have no idea what that set of judges wants.

[jjane45]

As for the not-getting-it part, I thought of my club's shows. One year we had a movie theme, and the name of the movie/a snippet of background would be announced before the start of the program, which helped it all come together for the audience.

I was thinking of the "planned jump content" sheet judges get. What about giving skaters the option to submit a 20 words description of the interpretive program?

[Sierra]

I was thinking of the "planned jump content" sheet judges get. What about giving skaters the option to submit a 20 words description of the interpretive program?

That'd be awesome.

[Sk8tmum]

I was thinking of the "planned jump content" sheet judges get. What about giving skaters the option to submit a 20 words description of the interpretive program?

In Canada, you are required to give the judges the title of your interpretive. We ran a proposed title by a few people for my DD's interpretive; they didn't "get it" with the first couple of tries, but, once we found one that "explained" it the entire program made far more sense to people, and it was scored higher.

For me, interpretive skating is like interpretive dance ... I figure it's well done when I "get" the story being told without having someone tell me what it's about ... and that the music is secondary to the story being told; you're not interpreting a piece of music, you're telling a story with the moves and expressions and detail of the number ...

[techskater]

I was thinking of the "planned jump content" sheet judges get. What about giving skaters the option to submit a 20 words description of the interpretive program?

In the US for Adult Nationals, it's an 8 word or less description.

I think whatever music a person chooses, especially for a dramatic/artistic program:
1) the skater has to connect to the music.  This can be for whatever reason and in any particular way
2) the skater has to have a clear idea idea of what their concept is and try and convey that concept through the artistic/dramatic program

Last year, I used "Time in a Bottle" by Jim Croce for my Dramatic program.  Most people would say "emoting to sappy music; boring!" but my coach and I put it together with a concept and story in mind.  It came together and there were a number of people who approached both my coach and I about the program and how they felt something when I skated the program and how lovely it was. 

Long story short - if you think you have a story or concept and can pull it off with your skating skills, go for it!

[Skittl1321]

In the US for Adult Nationals, it's an 8 word or less description.

So mine would be "What ice skating is about: pretty, happy, sparkly"

Yes, my cliche artistic program was designed solely so I could have a costume with lots of rhinestones.  I don't care that a million other people use the music- I LIKE it.

[granita]

I've been lurking here for ages and finally made myself register to prove there's more than one F1 fan skater! This is one of my favourite tracks from my 'skating' playlist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsyOgYjrV8I and I''d love to put together a proper routine for it.

It's highly likely the judges won't 'get it', but if you're allowed any vocals on the track, could you cut in a line of classic commentary or driver interview quote right at the start to set the scene?

[karne]

It's highly likely the judges won't 'get it', but if you're allowed any vocals on the track, could you cut in a line of classic commentary or driver interview quote right at the start to set the scene?

Hi!!! Always good to know when one is not alone.

That's a really beautiful song! I hope you manage to get to do your program to it

The commentary/quote line is a good idea. I'm sure I could find a suitable one. Nothing's certain yet though. I might try my JAG artistic first and leave Senna for later, when I'm more skilled, but thanks for the tip

Out of curiosity, who's your F1 man?