A question regarding competition entry

[learning_as_i_go]

Firstly hi I'm new to this forum

A bit of background:

I have 3 kids who all skate with the same coach.  There is a competition coming up that originally our coach had mentioned entering all 3 in. The older 2 (10 and have just moved up a level and changed their solo so we kind of expected they wouldn't be ready in time to enter (which the coach has now said and we agree with) but our youngest's solo is the same and the coach decided not to enter our youngest either stating that the plan is to work on some harder elements and double her speed and get her sit spin better (this is the only element in her solo that the coach mentioned).  She hasn't had a chance to compete at a larger competition at this level (only the club comp) and loves to compete.  Added to this her grandma lives several thousand miles away and will be in town during the competition - my daughter would love to compete infront of her and she would love to watch iykwim.   Coach says that their mind is made up would rather spend the time on the elements in the hope of moving up as soon as she can but will enter her if we request - we'd really like to give our daughter a chance to compete and work on the elements for the next level later.  We're worried about creating bad feeling with the coach but feel we should let her do this.  Any thoughts?

[FigureSpins]

Frankly, I agree with your coach, but it sounds like you're dead-set on having them compete instead of moving up.

Ask the coach about doing a non-freeskate event, like Compulsory Moves or a jump/spin event(s).  The skater doesn't really need to memorize a full program for those events, so their lesson time can focus more on the skills the coach wants her to learn.

Or, ask about adding an short extra lesson for a few weeks to focus on the competition skills vs. regular lesson for development skills.

[hopskipjump]

Will the coach be able to make it to the competition?  If she is okay with going for dd, I would just let her know dd was really looking forward and how grandma will be in town and how special it would be for everyone, I don't see how she would be upset.

Now if she has plans (even if it is a day of coaching other kids who will not compete at her home rink) and cannot be there for your dd, you can ask if she wants another coach to put heron the ice.  I know my dd would not be comfortable with anyone but her coach putting her out there unless it was one of two other coaches she skates with in class all the time.  Even then, she would need to have a couple privates with them before she was 100 percent happy.

[learning_as_i_go]

To FigureSpins: Thanks for the suggestion but the solo is the only event she can enter into at this comp.  She already knows her solo really well (been working on it since December) but her coach will want to spend the time we have before the comp fine tuning it  - I keep thinking she's only little and having fun skating to her solo is just as important as learning new skills.  Oh btw I forgot to add she is only 5 years old and pre-pre A.  

To hopskipjump:  I am sure the coach is going to the comp anyway so I don't think that is an issue

[isakswings]

what is pre-pre A? Are you in US or Canada? I know their system is different then the US system.

If it were me and it meant that much to my child to compete with Grandma watching, I would talk to her coach and explain the situation. It sounds like the other 2 are fine waiting and it is really only your youngest who wants to compete. I understand what the coach is saying and while it makes sense, I think it would be nice for your little girl to get the chance to skate for grandma. My daughter has relatives that live out of state and if they were going to be in town for a competition, we would probably do it. Maybe like someone else suggested, maybe add in a few extra lessons? She is still so little that I am not sure I would do that though. Good luck!

[Skittl1321]

Seems like the coach has said she will enter your daughter if you request it.  Sounds like you want your daughter to compete.  So I'd do it.

It does seem though that if the goal is to move your daughter up a level it would be better to stick with coach's plan and not compete (although if your daughter is 5 and in pre-pre, it doesn't seem like there is a huge rush to test to preliminary...).  Can grandma go and watch a lesson?  Your daughter could wear her competition dress and run the program during it.

[learning_as_i_go]

@isakswings - Canada - there are 3 pre-preliminary levels each has a maximum jump level - Pre-prelim A is the first level (then B, then C - then test to prelim).  I don't think we'll go down the route of extra lessons as I don't want to bombard her with skating more than 4 times a week at her age (although I doubt she'd complain LOL!) Oh and it is her loop, flip and camel spin that the coach wants to start working on more - that and getting her sit spin (which she has in her solo) some more speed and revolutions.

Here is some info to explain it better than me:

Pre-Preliminary Women A

Must not have passed any part of the Preliminary Free
Skate Test or any complete Skate Canada Test. Solo may
include Waltz Jump, Toe Loop and Salchow but no
higher jumps of one or more revolutions. No age limit.  1.5 min.


Pre-Preliminary Women B

Must not have passed any part of the Preliminary Free
Skate Test or any complete Skate Canada Test. Solo may
include Waltz Jump, Toe Loop, Salchow, Loop Jump &
Flip but no higher jumps of one or more revolutions. (no
Axel or Lutz). No age limit.  1.5 min.

Pre-Preliminary Women C

Must not have passed the complete Preliminary Free
Skate Test. Skate Canada WBP requirements in effect.
No age limit.  1.5 min.

@ Skittl1321 - my mom probably will watch a lesson (or 2) but it isn't the same as seeing a competition (for my daughter or my mom LOL!).  

[hopskipjump]

If the coach is already going to be there I would just ask - the worst that the coach can say is no and not give a reason. 

[Sk8tmum]

Okay, as the Canadian in the room:  your daughter is exceptionally young for a pre-pre competition. A 5 year old would normally be in Canskate; introductory at best. That said, there are exceptions, and I have seen a (very) few 5 year olds at pre-pre.  Has she competed previously, and has she enjoyed it?  Does she have to skate pre-pre, i.e. is she dequalified from Introductory, or is she skating up because this is a Starskate Comp (and also, of course, there are no more programs at Canskate anymore as of 2011/12!)

I note also that this comp has no age limit: she may be skating against kids who are significantly older than her; often, there are age divisions to prevent your daughter from skating against, say, a 10 year old (and there are 10 year olds and older at pre-pre A), but, not in this one.

Now, you are referring to working on elements to "move up". Are you meaning the Preliminary Freeskate test? If so, then, remember, that kids land axels at that level, as well as a double jump; thus, if you are moving to that level, and you don't yet have a loop, flip or camel, then, yes  it sounds like it would be a stretch, and I agree that if she is to be competing at that level, then, yes,you would need to work on elements. Again, a 5 year old would be very surprising at that level.

If you're referring to Pre-Pre B as your move up: then, remember if you're doing StarSkate Challenge later this year, there are no "a" or "b" at that level, and she will definitely need that loop, flip and camel - not to mention a lutz. The only "single" you can't land at pre-pre is the axel ...

If your kid is tough enough to go out there and skate in a summer comp, maybe against kids twice her age, and still be happy ... then, you know your kid best. A competition will take away from the element practice.   Yes, it's nice to skate for her grandmother ... but, how will she handle it with the additional pressure of skating FOR grandma?  Is she experienced enough a competitor?

I'd have an honest discussion with the coach about whether she thinks your kid is ready to compete at that level, and a call from the coach as to what the "level" of competition will be at the comp itself, so you can make a good decision.    Some of the summer comps are quite challenging, some not so much; I know the Ontario and Quebec ones well, in terms of level, but, outside of there ... not so much

ETA: sorry, just saw your note that she'd only competed in club comps before. 

[learning_as_i_go]

@Sk8tmum

thanks for replying.  She is a solid pre-prelim A.  She completed CanSkate 6 at the beginning of the year and was the club canskater of the year.  She has already done introductory.  I am aware of the ages she'll be against as my older 2 have just moved into pre-prelim B but trust me we're not pushing her she adores being on the ice.  The last comp she did 3 events  - elements, solo and improv all against kids much older than her (including being against my 8 year old on the improv) and it doesn't phase her in the slightest.  She actually was complaining when the comp was over.  Her coach is looking to move her into pre-prelim B asap - she has landed her loop a few times but needs to make it neater and is about to work on her flip - she can do a camel spin but again it isn't neat and tidy and she doesn't always have enough speed to do enough revolutions - this was what the coach wanted to work on this summer.  I am not in a rush for her to move up so if she doesn't work on those elements for a few weeks to perfect her solo that would be fine with me.  As for the level at the comp I know that she probably won't place and that doesn't bother me or her - she just likes skating to music on clean ice in a pretty dress with her hair all done fancy  

PS - most people presume she is about 7 by how she looks and how she acts she isn't a "baby 5" iykwim

[aussieskater]

While I'm not a coach, I am a parent.  Thanks to the passage of time, my children only have grandma's left, and both of those are now elderly.  If it was my DD and her heart was set on "skating for Grandma" who lives thousands of miles away, I would point out to Coach that there may not be another opportunity for your DD to skate for Grandma.  I'm pretty sure that when it's put like that, Coach will see the issue and agree.  As you say, DD is only 5.  It's not like there's not time to work on the elements afterwards.

[dak_rbb]

...I would point out to Coach that there may not be another opportunity for your DD to skate for Grandma...  ...It's not like there's not time to work on the elements afterwards.

I agree!!  She's only 5.  Is it that critical for her to move up right away?  What's this all for?  Seems like she should have fun (especially at this age).  I'm sure there are many fine skaters who did not have a solid flip and camel spin at age 5.  

Edited to add:  Competitions and programs definitely do take time and I know my daughter's coach plans out the year to include good blocks of time just to work on skating.  However, she would be happy to adjust if we really wanted to do a specific competition.  In your daughter's case it doesn't seem like it would take too much time for this comp, she loves to compete, and grandma is in town.

[aussieskater]

PS - forgot to add - I'd be saying the same for the other two children too, for the same reason, if they also wanted to skate for Grandma.

[fsk8r]

I'd have loved the opportunity to perform for grandma. Watching someone practice isn't quite the same as being able to put on a performance with nobody else on the ice to get in the way. While you may lose some lesson time preparing for the competition, the skills learnt on performance are worth the time to learn and the new skills can wait a couple of weeks.
I'd second all the advice to let the coach know about grandma's visit. Hopefully, she'll appreciate that this is one of those rare opportunities.

And anyway, if the skaters are all ready to move up a level, they should be really competitive in their current levels.

 

[isakswings]

I'd have loved the opportunity to perform for grandma. Watching someone practice isn't quite the same as being able to put on a performance with nobody else on the ice to get in the way. While you may lose some lesson time preparing for the competition, the skills learnt on performance are worth the time to learn and the new skills can wait a couple of weeks.
I'd second all the advice to let the coach know about grandma's visit. Hopefully, she'll appreciate that this is one of those rare opportunities.

And anyway, if the skaters are all ready to move up a level, they should be really competitive in their current levels.

 

I agree... I would really push for her to have the chance to skate for grandma. Practcing isn't the same. Ultimately, it is up to you and of coarse, her coach. But I would hope most coaches would see the value in doing what you request too. I could see it if she did not have a program for this level. However, she does. At 5, there is pleanty of time for her to move up.

[Sk8tmum]

I will add this, just to create more trouble .  We had a similar situation: parents in town, never seen kid compete.  So, we put her in a competition - she was eager to do it, parents wanted to see it, coach agreed although she did not recommend it. 

It was a disaster.  My DD loves to compete; she competes everywhere, never minds coming in last or near last, simply loves to skate with the dress and the program and that.  In this case, though, the pressure of having Grandma and Grandpa there made the "coming in last" not okay - and she didn't skate her best anyways because of the stress.  And, because my parents didn't know enough about skating to be able to tell that she was in a 'stretch objective' type of comp, all they saw was that their beloved grandchild wasn't at the same standard as the other skaters ...and they were upset by it, and sad for her.  It ended up being a poor decision on our part.  Now, they came out later to the rink and saw her practicing - they could see how positive the relationship was between her and her coach, how hard she worked, how she was at a good standard when they saw her at the rink - and they could ask questions, and everyone felt great about seeing those sessions. The practices also last longer, so they were able to see ice dance, freeskate, jumps that worked and jumps that were in progress ... and how she had great friends on the ice and was happy there.

So, that's how it worked for us, and I just wanted to explain why I'm a bit leery on this subject - without knowing the players, it's hard to predict how people will react.