Spinning and dizziness...

[isakswings]

dd mentioned yesterday that everytime she comes out of her pancake spin she is really dizzy. Her pancake spin is near the beginning of her program and I wouldn't have had a clue that she was dizzy at all based on the way she skated yesterday! She said she could barley see where she was going. Poor kid! Her best friend says when she does her layback she gets dizzy like that too. Any one else have kids(or yourself) who get dizzy doing spins yet manage to complete their program looking as if everything is fine? LOL

[fsk8r]

My coach generally lets me have a de-dizzying maneouver in the program so I can skate it without being too dizzy. I find coming out of a spin on a landing edge to not help with the dizziness, so I normally toe-pick to stop and pause. My latest program the coach has choreographed for me to step out of the spin forwards into a 3 turn. Other than being tricky, it actually really helps with the dizziness as the 3 turn is against the spin direction.

Has she mentioned the dizziness to her coach? It might be that a simple change to the choreography could be added as it's no fun being dizzy.

[isakswings]

I am not sure if she has mentioned it to her coach. I will have to ask her. I can't recall what she does after the spin, but I don't recall it being anything too challenging. I honestly think it is a hop or some kind of basic foot work. I don't remember. LOL! This is a new program and I actually haven't watched it as much as her previous program. I can't wait to get the video and watch it again. I will be sure she mentions the dizziness to her coach. She is skating this program again in a month... so it would likely be a very good thing for her to let her coach know she is dizzy after her pancake spin. She sure spins fast in that spin!

[Skittl1321]

I don't usually get dizzy in spins, unless the spin falls off the edge and is wobbly, then I do and moving on to the next move can be very very difficult.  Chances are the coach knows that kids will get dizzy and choreographed some sort of "breather" move right after it. 

I kind of dedicated my practice to make sure no matter how dizzy I was I'd be able to do the next thing.  For a month, everytime I did a spin, I did the exit edge, then immediatly 3-turned.  At first, the 3-turn was really hard to do when the spin had gone bad, but now I can do it without much issue.  The next thing I have in my program are back crossovers, so that gives me my chance to get my head clear before a jump.

My coach actually asked me if I wanted all my spins at the end of the program, so that dizzy isn't a factor.  If you watch elite programs, they often front load jumps and back load spins, and I think that is a combination of needing the stamina to do the jumps, so getting them out of the way, but also to eliminate having to deal with dizziness.  I asked a coach who is a former international skater and he said that for some skaters dizziness never goes away- you don't get used to spinning, you just learn to deal with it.

[jumpingbeansmom]

Yes, certain spins and/or positions do that to my dd as well... her coaches had to change the order of elements because she just could NOT pull off double lutz double loop after that spin.

[jjane45]

My latest program the coach has choreographed for me to step out of the spin forwards into a 3 turn. Other than being tricky, it actually really helps with the dizziness as the 3 turn is against the spin direction.

Chances are the coach knows that kids will get dizzy and choreographed some sort of "breather" move right after it. 

Would you elaborate a little on specific moves that may help with dizziness to some extent? I occasionally come out from spins so dizzy that I stand there for seconds to recollect myself.

[Skittl1321]

For me the three turn goes in the same direction as the spin, so I don't have the same thing the other person you quoted does.  If it went the other way I don't think I could do it, those ones require concentration for me.

When I say "breather" I don't mean something that combats dizziness per-say (spin the other way has never been a helpful trick for me, but I've seen some people step out of their spin, plant a toe-pick and do a pivot, so that might be there for that sort of thing) just something that is a no-brainer so the skater can do it while still waiting for his/her eyes to come back, for me, that's 3-turn to back crossovers, stepping into forward crossovers when I'm dizzy results in a fall because my forward crossovers are not good.  For some people it helps to have a long exit edge. 

I think you just need to figure out what helps you.   I'm interested to know what some of the coaches on the board have to say.

[isakswings]

For me the three turn goes in the same direction as the spin, so I don't have the same thing the other person you quoted does.  If it went the other way I don't think I could do it, those ones require concentration for me.

When I say "breather" I don't mean something that combats dizziness per-say (spin the other way has never been a helpful trick for me, but I've seen some people step out of their spin, plant a toe-pick and do a pivot, so that might be there for that sort of thing) just something that is a no-brainer so the skater can do it while still waiting for his/her eyes to come back, for me, that's 3-turn to back crossovers, stepping into forward crossovers when I'm dizzy results in a fall because my forward crossovers are not good.  For some people it helps to have a long exit edge. 

I think you just need to figure out what helps you.   I'm interested to know what some of the coaches on the board have to say.

I am interested too! To be honest, I didn't know dd got dizzy at all until she told me on Saturday. So, eventhough she was dizzy, she pulled off her program and didn't hiccup at all! I get dizzy going a 3 or so rev 2 foot spin and I need to stop after 1 or 2 to collect myself! I cannot imagine doing it in a program! LOL!

[jumpingbeansmom]

Would you elaborate a little on specific moves that may help with dizziness to some extent? I occasionally come out from spins so dizzy that I stand there for seconds to recollect myself.

My daughter does a biellman and holds it going forward for a ways after her spin and her most dizzying spin is the last element in the program

[fsk8r]

I quite often exit a spin by just planting a toe pick and then there may be some arm choreography and this gives me a pause to combat the dizziness.
I find when I exit the spin by stepping forwards and then 3turning, I have to slow the spin down to exit, which helps de-dizzy and then the 3turn being in the opposite direction helps to continue the process.

I think there is something to do with spin position in how dizzy you get, but as I can only do the basic position spins, I don't know which is worse. And travel really does make it worse. A well centered spin has less of an effect than a travelling one.

[Query]

I don't do such fancy spins, BTW.

But I've been trying to learn to spin better with the help of my coach. She has lots of suggestions. The coach and/or choreographer needs to know about her dizziness issue.

For some reason, looking a little bit downwards at the ice helps me a bit. Looking straight out means you are looking at the horizon, which moves the fastest. Looking up while spinning always makes me dizzy.

When practicing, I often spin in alternate directions (CW and CCW). That helps a lot!. If your DD can do spins on both feet, or do back spins, maybe altering the routine to include both directions would help. BTW, rotational jumps create dizziness too. So helps if the routine doesn't have anything difficult just after a spin or jump sequence.

I just told my coach I get dizzy if I spin too fast, so I deliberately haven't been. She said spinning fast will help me get used to spinning fast, and will eventually help the dizziness. So, in practice, spin faster and longer! (That sounds like telling someone who hurts from getting hit that they need to be hit again, which might not be such a good idea, but maybe dizziness is different.)

Spinning off balance, so you rock, increases dizziness, but your DD is probably too good for that to be a factor.

It goes without saying that too much food, or too little, or eating just before you skate, makes balance harder. So does dehydration.

I used to hold my breath when I spun, without realizing it. That made me dizzy too. "Remember to breath" isn't as silly as it sounds.

[jjane45]

Spin type certainly matters. I remember change-foot spins drove me the dizziest.
Speed too, a fast sit spin is almost certain to make me dizzy as ever.
I am yet to figure out how much traveling / looking down affects it...

[isakswings]

It certainly could be the fact that she is looking down at the ground when she does that spin

[retired]

An ear infection can cause dizzyness and the infection can be low grade and painless.    It affects the middle ear so when the skater goes horizontal, via pancake spin or even spiral, it causes a bout of vertigo. 

A nice exit from a spin is to stay on the exit edge, power pull change of edge into inside loop.  An easier version is to exit to landing foot, step down on the other foot and pull an inside loop (figure loop, not jump loop).   It is a change up from the step out, 3 turn the other way.

[fsk8r]

A nice exit from a spin is to stay on the exit edge, power pull change of edge into inside loop.  An easier version is to exit to landing foot, step down on the other foot and pull an inside loop (figure loop, not jump loop).   It is a change up from the step out, 3 turn the other way.

That sounds pretty cool, although can you explain exactly which edge, direction etc. you're doing when you pull out of the spin? I'm struggling to work it out exactly (not that my figure loops are that strong, but it might be an incentive to make me work on them!).

[Skittl1321]

You exit a spin on the back outside edge, so you would hold the outside edge, do a pull to the inside edge and then go into a back inside loop. I think

Sounds kind of fun, but I think I'd need more speed than my exit edges give!  Or a really strong pull!


(The only loop I do well is right forward outside....to do this, since I'm CW I think it would be LBI)

[retired]

The easy two step version:  Forward spin, you're spinning on your left foot, going to your left.   Step down on the right foot and exit into your Ta-Da!    Briefly step onto your left foot (instead of doing an edge change, that's why this is the easy version). let your arms go left a bit, it's a bit of a wide stance, then step directly back onto your right inside edge  almost pigeon toed with your right elbow leading and let your right arm pull you around the RBI loop that you're now doing.  Going to the right so a great head clearer.  It's a bit of a cheat loop-wise to start a loop figure basically at the bottom of the loop with a push and whippy but it gets the job done.