Query's Skates

[Query]

When it comes to sneakers and dress shoes for myself, I buy the cheapest thing I can find that more or less fits in a discount shoe store.

As far as I can tell, the major difference between different types, brands and costs of shoe is how they fit, balance, pad and support your foot, at various parts of the shoe. In a few minutes, with athletic tape and maybe foam tape, and a few other little tricks, you can turn a $10-$15 pair of sneakers into a $100 pair - in fact an even more expensive custom shoe - except for the brand label. I think everyone should learn how to do that, because it is rare to find a brand and model that will fit you exactly to begin with. I think you can figure out what you need, for a given activity, by paying attention to how the shoe feels when performing the activity. E.g., if you think extra support or padding would help somewhere, that is probably right.

(That may be hard for young kids, some of who have trouble analyzing how stuff feels, or expressing it. And we've also seen young and old skaters who blithely skate on boots that don't fit or aren't laced tight enough to support their feet, who somehow can't recognize the problem.)

Of course there is the matter of high top instead of low top, for sports that need extra ankle support. Also, there are non-marring outsoles, and outsoles with extra traction. There are color and dress vs athletic styles too. But all these options can be found among the cheapest shoes too. I've even switched to relatively cheap hiking boots, though some of the same support issues that apply to skates apply there.

Skates require so much extra ankle and toe support, plus an outsole to which you can attach a blade, that it is usually impossible to find cheap skates that work well. The same skills apply to modify fit, balance, and cushioning, but it is much more important that you get it right. It is also much harder to reinforce a boot to make it stiff where it needs to be, at the ranges of motion that they need to become stiff, than to fill up space, or stretch things a little. I'm not convinced that good boots need to be as expensive as they are - but there are a relatively small number of competent figure skate book manufacturers. To make matters worse, different brands fit different foot shapes and provide different ankle and toe support requirements, so skaters are often left with very few good choices. All of this helps keep prices high, and creates a thriving expensive custom boot market.

For a while Reidell made fairly cheap blue figure skates for the rental market with ski-buckle style closures, that fit me well after a few minutes of minor modification with tape, and provided the right amount of ankle and toe support for me. They were very durable - some local rinks here have had them about 15 years. (Once in a while they change the blades, which were rather low grade. Blades were attached with rivets, which would make adjusting the mount location more difficult.) After trying them at a local rink's rental counter, I tried to buy some, and couldn't. Reidell probably figured out it was more profitable to sell rental skates that wore out more quickly.

So how does this relate to the original topic buying LTS boots? I think that buying the wrong boots, or boots from a poor fitter, can sometimes be more of a problem than dealing with rentals, because rental counters usually let you try several pairs.

But, if you do buy the right boots, fit and adjusted by the right fitter, everything becomes a lot easier. For example, it is a overwhelmingly easier to switch between inside and outside edges, and especially to spin, when the blade is balanced to symmetrically fit and support your foot and body in the right way. You are also a lot less likely to hurt yourself in many different ways.

So if you are willing to do things right, the skater will be a lot happier and healthier. I economize wherever I can, but there is such a thing as false economy, when it comes to skates.

Thank goodness my feet aren't still growing! That creates a whole set of special problems that don't have particularly good solutions. No doubt it helps to start with big thick insoles one can replace or trim. But it must be a nightmare to buy new boots every few months, as some kids or their parents have to do.


Mod note: split from the rental vs. own skates thread - not relevant there.

[sarahspins]

I'm not convinced that good boots need to be as expensive as they are - but there are a relatively small number of competent figure skate book manufacturers. To make matters worse, different brands fit different foot shapes and provide different ankle and toe support requirements, so skaters are often left with very few good choices. All of this helps keep prices high, and creates a thriving expensive custom boot market.

I don't really know that this is true.... I think that when there is a limited market, pricing can be artificially inflated somewhat, however, it's also a matter of relativity.. there are cheaper boots out there are are adequate and I would venture to say that there are many skaters are skating in "more" boot and blade than they really need and obviously they are paying a higher price for it.  Also consider that many of the main brands in the US are actually made here in the US by skilled technicians.. and you are paying a bit more for that than you would for a product made in a factory in china.

I'm not convinced that one can turn a $10 pair of shoes into $100 shoes just by modifying the insoles... I wear expensive shoes because my feet are important to me, and I am super picky about fit and quality.  There is absolutely a difference in the materials used and the quality of a $100 pair of shoes compared to a $10 pair of shoes.  Consider Keen sandals for a moment... yes, they're expensive (and many would argue TOO expensive), and there are tons of knock-offs out there now (you can buy them at Target, Walmart, anywhere for less than $15), but absolutely none of them compare to the originals.  I know, because I've bought them for my kids trying to save money (which doesn't save a lot - they go on sale at REI every spring), and they just don't compare to the real deal.. they cheap knock-offs have either fallen apart quickly, or have major fit issues that I can't overlook (and so I returned them).  I'm happy to pay more for my Keens because they come from a company I believe in, and I know that in the long-term, it's money well spent because not only have I yet to have a problem with their shoes in terms of fit (which is rare for me), I've also yet to wear out a pair... I have several pairs which are nearly as old as the company and they're still going strong.. and these shoes are 7+ years old now.  My kids haven't worn out a pair yet either - outgrown, yes, but my 10 year old can completely demolish a pair of tennis shoes in two months, and he hasn't been able to destroy his Keens.

Unrelated, but I'm a photographer and I'm not convinced that much of the gear I use (and I am not just talking cameras and lenses) is really worth what it costs, but it is what the market dictates... and it makes all skating gear (and shoes!) look very affordable in comparison.

[Skate@Delaware]

Boots that fit are well worth the money. I once had custom shoes (black leather pumps 2 3/4" heels) made to my feet. They cost about $200 (back in 1983). That was a lot of money back then, however, I wore those shoes EVERYWHERE and they were well-balanced and my feet never hurt. Because I got the maximum wear out of them, the cost per wear was actually spread out and was pennies/wear.

Skaters who buy cheaper skates every year because their boots "don't fit right" end up spending quite a bit more per wear. (of course, skaters who's feet are growing tend to not count in this category). In short-custom boots that fit you well will get you more mileage and cost less over the long haul.

[icefrog]

And if you are taking lessons you might be trying to over compensate for skates that don't fit. I had a pair that were too big and I spent so much time tying them, putting on more pairs of socks. I also didn't feel very comfortable jumping and really doing everything else because I could feel my foot moving in my skate and it was uncomfortable. There are places in skating where you can cut corners. I save money by buying used dresses and stoning them myself, getting jackets and leggings in the summer on clearance, skating on empty public sessions, taking group lessons. I could go on, but boots and coaching are not places to save money. I know it sucks and skates are pricey, but getting a used blade is the only way to get a deal on a blade. And really if you are taking privates, one group, one FS and one public session a week you might be spending over $50 a week on skating anyway so why cut corners on the one thing you really need?

[Query]

Everyone has different experiences. In everything but skates, I've done at least as well with many cheap shoes as top end expensive ones.

Partly because I've found cheapies that fit me better, because there are many more brands of cheap shoe than top end shoe.