Are Group Lessons Worthwhile?

[Skittl1321]

Also, the privates may have ruined me for groups.  I didn't feel like I got much out of MIF or free tonight other than some distracted practice.  *grumblegrumble*

I have this issue a lot with groups - is it worth it?  (Although my group class recently changed and is amazing, but the previous one, not so much.)  So I did a cost analysis.  Group classes come out to $11.25 per class.  Our rink throws in a practice session per class, and they let freestyle groups use that on freestyle ice- that's $9.  So each class is $2.25 left per class.  Do I get $2.25 out of it?  Some days, I didn't think so (it was that bad), but then I thought of it this way- 30 minutes of ice would cost me at least that much, even without instruction.  So even if it's just distracted practice, at least I'm on the ice...  If it weren't for the practice ice though, I would have left group lessons.  Privates are a lot more expensive, but I don't spend half the lesson waiting for a kid to finally pay attention.

[jjane45]

I have this issue a lot with groups - is it worth it?  (Although my group class recently changed and is amazing, but the previous one, not so much.)  So I did a cost analysis.  Group classes come out to $11.25 per class.  Our rink throws in a practice session per class, and they let freestyle groups use that on freestyle ice- that's $9.  So each class is $2.25 left per class.  Do I get $2.25 out of it?  Some days, I didn't think so (it was that bad), but then I thought of it this way- 30 minutes of ice would cost me at least that much, even without instruction.  So even if it's just distracted practice, at least I'm on the ice...  If it weren't for the practice ice though, I would have left group lessons.  Privates are a lot more expensive, but I don't spend half the lesson waiting for a kid to finally pay attention.

Well it depends on if you are able to work hard as if you're on practice ice. I've had REALLY good group lessons that work better than a private - hour and half of beautiful ice working non-stop with an excellent coach and few students. (alas too good to last long)

On the other end of the spectrum, an unfortunate combination of irresponsible coach, little ice surface, large class size, plus inconvenient timing. 10 students practicing camel spins on one-third of the ice without instructions, and demonstrate one by one without any feedback. Can't even call it distracted practice ice because of the idling time, I'd have much more productive practice on reasonable public ice @@

[hopskipjump]

Dd is sometimes the only person on freestyle.  While she likes having a rink to herself it sometimes becomes a disaster because she feels alone.  The first half goes well and the second half she starts to get bored and lonely.  We try to have her get a private lesson during that time so she has practice, lesson and then can work on skills while they are fresh in her mind.

She was taking classes at 2 rinks.  One rink had a change of teachers every session. Sometimes it felt like treading water, she was always starting at the beginning.  Moving up was difficult even with private lessons - esp when subs were coming in as well.

At the other rink, the highest level classes are all taught by the same couple of coaches.  Often 6 months goes by with the same coach.  She gets a LOT out of those classes because each week just moves on from where they left off and they all know the kids and where they are with skills.

Also for every group lesson she gets a free public that day and one day a week to come back for another public.  Or she can use her extra publics and give them to friends to come skate with her (includes skate rental).  If she take 2-3 group classes that is more passes than we have use for (she has freestyles as well and passes are not valid on freestyle ice) so she loves asking classmates who don't skate to join her.  Sometimes if it is quiet enough I'll surprise her and go out for a bit (I am a TERRIBLE skater).

[Skittl1321]

Well, since the topic changed, let me add that good group lessons are definetly worthwhile! 

After a coaching change my "OMG this is such a waste of time, it's only costing me $2" class turned into a Power class (the coach decided since he has all of us at some other point in the week, he wasn't going to do the same freestyle class, even though it's technically a freestyle 3-4 class- but after Basic 8 our rink doesn't use the curriculum)

This class kicks my butt and has noticeably improved my speed.  100% worth every penny, even without the free ice time.

[FigureSpins]

The instructors don't always have that option.  I was able to change the curriculum for my most recent adult class since they were just interested in hockey.  I switched from the adult track to the hockey curriculum quickly, but if I had had other adults in the group that didn't want to learn hockey, it would have been a dilemma.

At this time of the year in the US, directors are a little more flexible about customizing curriculum, but there have to be several people committed to enrolling.

[AgnesNitt]

I get 30 minutes of practice time before group, a group lesson, and 6 public session passes for $115.

I just sort of total the whole experience mentally into 12 public sessions. Which is about $10 per session. Besides, group is the only way I can get mid-week skating in the winter.

[Skittl1321]

The instructors don't always have that option. 

Oh, I know.  But after 3 years in Freestyle 4 if I was at a rink that only taught the curriculum, I wouldn't do LTS anymore.  Even the ones that stick more closely to the class and "test" their students still do other stuff.  The Power class thing is a first, as it's a complete diversion- we don't do any jumps/spins.  But the other classes that do still do them based on the needs of the students, and not just the elements listed for the level.

[jjane45]

But after 3 years in Freestyle 4 if I was at a rink that only taught the curriculum, I wouldn't do LTS anymore. 

I fully anticipate to stay in my current level for years and years to come, and there will always be skills to attain or to solidify.

The curriculum change you describe is tricky though. IMO not all coaches appreciate the power class especially if ice time is very limited and freestyle elements need tons of work. There are separate power classes for, power. But if there is no power class offered and ALL students and ALL parents welcome the change, then why not.

Back to topic, I think group lessons are awesome if you have the right coach. A decent coach makes the worst situation endurable (big change when my private Coach replaced the aforementioned irresponsible one for one lesson). I also felt lonely when for a session I had small privates only. Taking group lessons generates more rapport with fellow rink skaters, adult or youth.

[Sierra]

My group lessons were really helpful for a long time because there was only a few people in my freestyle group and the coaches deviated from the curriculum, so I was able to work on doubles, Prelim MITF and such.
But the last couple sessions I did, I felt like I wasn't getting much. If it wasn't my private coach teaching, I had problems. Other coaches would contradict what my private coach told me, mostly on axels and camels, or their technique just plain did not work well for me. Also if I worked on easier things I got zero instruction.. such as back threes, the stroking on pre-juv, lutzes- I know there's things to fix, but the group coach would just say 'great!' and move on to another kid.

Group lessons cost about $10 each which is the cost of a freestyle session, and I just told mom I thought I'd get a lot more out of an hour of solid practice than out of the group lesson. And now I've somehow managed to acquire private lesson time on that freestyle, so I've officially moved on from general group lessons, though my coach put me in a figure group. But I'm nervous about that one because I'm afraid whatever coach is there will put me to work on waltz 8 and forward figure, and I really need to work on backward figure, and I'll just sound like a complete snot if I go "Well I've already passed Prelim and I need to work on Pre juv." So that will be a dilemma, but I'll see how it turns out. The concentrated practice on the back figure for a full half hour is really going to help prepare for my test.

So I would say that once you start getting into private lessons, you start losing taste for the group lessons. But if it's not overcrowded with good coaches, they can be very beneficial.

[Elsa]

My group classes this winter were great - one super coach and four skaters - totally worth every penny.  This session is really crowded and the coaches changed.  The only extra ice we get is what's available that night, and I currently have a lesson in each slot.  I know it was just the first night and the coaches are still getting to know us so it might get better. 

For this go around though, I'm not sure they're worth it - at least not for freestyle - our levels are too different.  I think if I spent that 30 minutes working on MIF or dance, it might be a better use of my time.

[AgnesNitt]

And I thought I'd just mention that in my group class the adults have turned it into a kind of social club.  I think if the FSC tried to recruit adult beginners it might be a good thing.

[sarahspins]

I think whether it's "worthwhile" really depends on the coach, as well as the other students in the class.

I was taking an adult class (it ended for the summer), and it was just me and one or two other skaters and while we were never at the same level (one was a hockey skater!), it still worked out great that way, I think mostly because our coach was really good at directing each of us individually without taking time out from the group as a whole.   I am looking forward to the class resuming in the fall and I still feel like I can get a lot out of it - and right now I can't justify the cost of private lessons.  Mostly we worked on moves but we did do a decent amount of freestyle - really it was up to us as the students to let the coach know what we wanted to focus on, as there is no structured curriculum for our group, unlike the kids and lower level groups.

[jjane45]

I've had REALLY good group lessons that work better than a private - hour and half of beautiful ice working non-stop with an excellent coach and few students. (alas too good to last long)

It was absolutely one of the best experiences I had, worth every penny of it. Lured me to switch to the current rink from the rink I started with Unfortunately it got routinely canceled for non-summer sessions because it's late in the evening on a weekday and only a few skaters can make it. For summer the timing is way better and I am a little more optimistic. Still doing my best to solicit skaters who took it in the past, LOL. (Please people, don't wait until the day of the class, sign up at least 2 days early so skating pros could be assigned!!!)

My rink also has a very nice package for Saturday morning that includes power, flow, off-ice training, and FS lesson. That's a total of 3 hours for $25. Very good for strength training (30 minutes power, 1 hour off-ice, and 30 minutes power-like warm-up in FS lesson) but if possible I still prefer the adult FS class mentioned above because I really need more actual coaching (30 minutes vs. 60+ minutes)...

All in all, group lessons are worthwhile as long as the coach is proficient and professional in coaching the skater's current level, plus capable of giving assignments in a way that the weaker ones are not left behind while the stronger ones remain challenged.

[Query]

Yes.

[jjane45]

One thing I like about my current rink's FS group lesson for kids is the emphasis on group warm up. Out of 60 minutes lesson time, 25-30 minutes is like mini-power: stroking and patterns that warm up majority of the pre-freestyle elements.

I found my stamina was better when I took those classes. Rarely would I do intensive routines like that on my own! OTOH, if the skater only takes group lessons, one may feel 5 minute warm up is more preferable...

[TheAquarian]

I personally have never taken a group lesson, but I have watched them from the boards while taking my skates off.   

If "Worthwhile"  means  "just as good as private lessons" then the answer is absolutely not.   If "Worthwhile"  means "will I be able to learn anything?"  The answer is  "most likely."  If worth while means  "the amount that I am learning in the time that is spent learning is worth the amount of money I am paying" well then that is completely subjective.

The bottom line is that group lessons are going to teach neither as well or completely as a private coach well,  but they are also the far more economical option.     The only way for anyone to answer this question is  to ask themselves  how much the value skating and how important is it to learn quickly.     

If rapid progression is your number one goal, I strongly suggest hiring a private coach from the get-go.   If you want to casually learn something without too much financial commitment while surrounded by many other people who are in the same boat as you are,  then I suggest group lessons.

I personally decided to go with a private coach (and purchasing competitive skates) because I knew the financial commitment would cause me to persevere through any discomfort I had at the beginning while I was falling.  As it turns out it wasn't needed, but if it was it would have forced me to stick with the sport long enough to appreciate it.  Also, as an older skater when I started (29),  I felt as if I didn't have as much time to waste as the kids, so I wanted to learn as quickly as possible.  I don't regret a single one of my skating decisions, although I also recognize that not everyone is coming into the sport with the same goals and level of dedication that I did.

[Query]

Let me enlarge upon my simple "Yes".

Try it, you'll like it.

- Or not.

We can't predict what will be true for you.

[PinkLaces]

My experience with group lessons -

In FS, not so much.  Usually at the adult level, there is so much skill variation that it very few coaches can do it effectively.

In Dance, sometimes.  If the skill levels are similar, it can be worthwhile.  It also seems a bit easier for the instructor to block out the dances by skill.  Plus everyone can do the easier ones together (good warm up for the more advanced) and then more advanced can practice their stuff while less advanced practice their stuff.

In Power and Edge classes, definately.  Those classes seem to be the ones that can easily adapted to a wide range of skill levels. 

[jjane45]

In FS, not so much.  Usually at the adult level, there is so much skill variation that it very few coaches can do it effectively.

At the adult level, we often work on basics together for half of the time, then get mini private instructions for the second half. However  if some skaters are working on the same elements, instructor will combine those skaters into a subgroup.

If youth classes are offered at the right time and small in size, it's worthwhile to check them out. My FS3 and FS4 classes with children generated satisfactory results because 1) the instructor was excellent 2) more focus on elements of the level vs. loose structure in adult class and 3) reasonable class size.

The downside of youth class is the focus on evaluation and testing. It could feel discouraging or even a waste of time.

[Skittl1321]

In FS, not so much.  Usually at the adult level, there is so much skill variation that it very few coaches can do it effectively.

That's because adult isn't a level, it's an age!  I've found FS classes to be much more effective if you go into the kid's classes of the appropriate level.  Socialization can occur during practice time, if you are at the rink to chat.

[jjane45]

90 minutes semi-private with an excellent instructor = bliss. Not sure what will happen next session though...

[hopskipjump]

Most of my daughter's classes have adults in them - esp from about fs1 and up until Axel. I haven't seen adults from Axel on up.  The "adult classes" are beginning and intermediate/advanced.  They cover alpha - abou gamma, a wide range, but because they are really small classes they are more like semi private lessons.  Then they move to fs1.