off ice shoot the duck

[falen]

Any tips?  It's not a thigh strenght issue as she can do one leg squats.  But its her ankle area that keeps turning over.  Push down on big toe and she falls over one way.  Don't push and she falls over the other.  Can it be done off ice with the skate?  She's getting tired of falling on ice and she asked me can't she just do it at home on the nice soft carpet?

[sk8lady]

The shoot-the-duck can be done off-ice, with or without skates, although I'm not sure how much it helps if the problem is balance, rather than leg strength, since the problem is usually finding the exact right spot on the blade to balance on while on ice.
If the student has the correct body position--behind tucked up against thighs, rather than a partial squat--I usually have them start the shoot-the-duck with one or both hands on the ice, so they can find the correct balance point on the skate. Once they're able to maintain the position with a hand on the ice, I have them extend the leg, then raise the hands. Seems to work for a lot of kids!

[isakswings]

This is a good tip! I will be interested to see what others say. My daughter can do it on the ice, but does it best with her dominate leg. she has a nice sit spin but can't seem to get that sit back sit. She CAN do it, but she usually ends up falling. *sigh* So, shoot the ducks are something she needs to do, esp with her "bad" leg. Maybe I will have her do some off ice.

[jjane45]

Assuming that people practice shoot-the-ducks for better sit spins, keep in mind that ducks are on the heel and sit spins use the ball, hence more ankle bend is required.

Some skaters hold the free boot while doing ducks and fall over to the back, I usually hold my free calf. As far as balance is concerned, I lean forward a lot to achieve balance on shoot-the-ducks, not sure if it helps.

BTW I think this topic falls under off-ice training?

[Skate@Delaware]

Argh! sits & shoot the ducks are the bane of my existence....I do them off ice. Maybe when I'm 60 I'll get a sit. 

I use a block of wood (2x4) under my heel to simulate my skate heel. I practice in front of my closet mirror. I "pretend" I'm going into my spin so I bring my leg around (hehe I was going to say "whip it around" but someone would chastise me for that lol).  On days where I'm weak, I hold onto a piece of furniture or resistance band that I have attached firmly to furniture (for stability). Ever since my back injury, my leg is weak on my spinning side (nerve damage) but on my backspin side-i'm good.  I typically do about 5 in a row, quit when I've had enough or get sloppy. Concentrate on position, depth, foot turnout, etc. I also try to hold it for a count of 3.

I also do wall-squats double and single leg, but I have been slacking lately.

[Query]

It is extremely difficult to balance without gliding on one blade - on or off ice. Balance comes from gliding fast. Can she can get moving fast first?

Doing it with your blades on your carpet would damage both the carpet and the edge of the blade.

She could practice with blade guards on the blades (wide plastic guards would be easiest at first).

For many of us, Shoot the Duck is a balance issue because it is a strength issue. If she goes down quite far (close to a right angle skating knee, or deeper), it may help to press down with her hands on her skating knee, or to pull up from beneath her free knee. Don't know if that would meet test standards.

For me, it is also a flexibility issue - it is hard to push my toe down far enough, because of the high heels on my skates, so I fall forwards (probably not your DD's issue).

Good luck!

[Skate@Delaware]

I wouldn't do them off ice in skates, with or without guards. There is no need. But I would have athletic shoes on for support.

And repetitious exercise will build up strength in the legs and you will find improvement over time (unless you are like me, with nerve damage, then improvement will slow then reach it's maximum point and stop).

[falen]

thanks!

Yes she does not fall forward the ankle sort of twists under her...thought she has started falling on her rear.

[Skate@Delaware]

thanks!

Yes she does not fall forward the ankle sort of twists under her...thought she has started falling on her rear.

have her push her behind out more (like she is trying to sit in a chair that's farther away) and reach in front more (stretch out) without leaning over, that should help.

[Isk8NYC]

BTW I think this topic falls under off-ice training?

Agreed.  Thread moved.

[jjane45]

have her push her behind out more (like she is trying to sit in a chair that's farther away) and reach in front more (stretch out) without leaning over, that should help.

Nice tip!

[Query]

I've been so mad I lost my shoot the ducks, that I used to be proud of, that I asked my coach to help me with them today, though it has little to do the ice dances I wish to learn. She got them sort of working again. Two hours later, I went back to the ice, and nothing worked.

There are so many things that can be done wrong, it probably makes sense for your DD to ask her coach.

[Isk8NYC]

I freely admit that I have a crappy shoot-the-duck on both feet, but can do really good sit spins on both feet.  Don't know why, but I do know that jjane45's right: they're done on different parts of the blade.  To do an on-ice STD as a drill for a sit spin, do it backwards on the spinning foot's inside edge, really fighting for the rocker, even if you have to drag the toepick at first.

[Doubletoe]

Assuming that people practice shoot-the-ducks for better sit spins, keep in mind that ducks are on the heel and sit spins use the ball, hence more ankle bend is required.

Some skaters hold the free boot while doing ducks and fall over to the back, I usually hold my free calf. As far as balance is concerned, I lean forward a lot to achieve balance on shoot-the-ducks, not sure if it helps.

Exactly.  If she is doing shoot-the-ducks in order to develop a good sit spin position, she should do them gliding backward so that she can balance on the ball of the blade, which is where she'd need to be in a sit spin.  Gliding backward in a sit position, the skating heel should be lifted and her weight balanced on the ball of the blade, just behind the toepick (she can't do this going forward or she will hit the toepick).  She should arch her back while pushing her chest and free leg forward and lowering the free leg.  Her chin should be up and her belly button should be trying to touch the thigh of the skating leg.  She can also practice sitting down and standing up out of this position on the floor at home in shoes with high heels.  Not only does this correctly simulate the balance for the sit spin, but she will find that it is *much* easier with the heel raised and it doesn't require nearly as much strength.