Skater relationship with a coach

[davincisop]

To clear it up I was a new face around there (moved so it was a new rink) and she asked if id had lessons before and I had told her yes but that I quit for a few years and was coming back into it.

[Purple Sparkly]

The skating world is very small. I managed to get a recommendation for a transatlantic coach, and I've got another one now transpacific (for when I decide to move to Australia). Bizarrely every free coach I've had can be traced back to the original one. There's a connection there, even if I didn't know it at the time.
It's worth asking for the recommendation, as it's really nice to have a connection when you first arrive and it helps maintain the relationship with the old.

I agree with this!  Most coaches know coaches all over and they may even be able to recommend a coach that has a similar teaching style.  And if that coach has a waiting list or limited availability, you may have a better chance of getting a spot if you are referred by a colleague.

[isakswings]

I always talk to dd's primary coach whenever we are considering adding in extra lessons with a different coach. I do NOT want to upset dd's coach in any way. Nor do I want to get a reputation for going behind her back. Dd has been with her coach for over 3 years and I don't plan on changing primary coaches unless her coach moves or we move. I also want to make sure she thinks adding the extra lessons would be helpful to dd's training. We are on a tight budget. I value dd's coaches opinion and I do not want to add anything to dd's training that isn't going to benefit her. Plus, if we add coaching, I want dd's primary coach to be comfortable with other coaches I add into the mix. I can't imagine it being a good fit if dd's coach and the secondary coach didn't get along!

Being a figure skating parent is confusing. There is so much to learn and just when you think you understand it all, you learn something new. Skating etiquitte(sp?) is something you learn as you go. I wish it wasn't that way, but around here it seems to be the nature of the beast.

[sk8lady]

Here's something I always wonder about. We have about 8 skaters who routinely come to a daytime rink-sponsored figure skating hour. 4 of us are adults and we often show each other our latest trick or success and then we all try to do it. There are also several home-schooled kids on the ice. Recently they saw me doing two things they wanted to learn how to do, a hydroblade and a fan spiral. I showed them how they were done then freaked because I wondered if I was soliciting. I then repeatedly told the mom, who was on the ice, to get their coach to show them how to do it. Is that soliciting or some variation, even though the adult skaters on the ice all do this routinely since we're all friends and are often goofing around like this?

[Isk8NYC]

I think you're fine with the adults.  I'm not sure about the kiddies, though, since they take lessons with someone else.
Make sure you don't bad-mouth their coaches, though.

Approach the skaters' coach(es) and clue them in, asking if they object to your explaining your tricks.
The worst thing that could happen is that they say "please don't."  You'll be honest and upfront, which is really what it's all about.

[isakswings]

Here's something I always wonder about. We have about 8 skaters who routinely come to a daytime rink-sponsored figure skating hour. 4 of us are adults and we often show each other our latest trick or success and then we all try to do it. There are also several home-schooled kids on the ice. Recently they saw me doing two things they wanted to learn how to do, a hydroblade and a fan spiral. I showed them how they were done then freaked because I wondered if I was soliciting. I then repeatedly told the mom, who was on the ice, to get their coach to show them how to do it. Is that soliciting or some variation, even though the adult skaters on the ice all do this routinely since we're all friends and are often goofing around like this?

In my opinion, I would say no. I do not see the harm in what you did. My daughter's coach would be thrilled to see her trying a new move. I don't see how that is any different then trying to copy-cat what someone else is doing. You did not give them lessons, you just showed them how to do something after they asked you how to do it. You also said to have their coach show them too. Nothing wrong with that. JMO... of coarse.

[Sierra]

Here's something I always wonder about. We have about 8 skaters who routinely come to a daytime rink-sponsored figure skating hour. 4 of us are adults and we often show each other our latest trick or success and then we all try to do it. There are also several home-schooled kids on the ice. Recently they saw me doing two things they wanted to learn how to do, a hydroblade and a fan spiral. I showed them how they were done then freaked because I wondered if I was soliciting. I then repeatedly told the mom, who was on the ice, to get their coach to show them how to do it. Is that soliciting or some variation, even though the adult skaters on the ice all do this routinely since we're all friends and are often goofing around like this?

I think the kids would probably try the hydro and fan spiral anyway. The 'trick elements'- for lack of better term- hydroblades, spirals of all variations, shoot the ducks, lunge tricks, etc. all get passed around between kids- I don't think my coach has ever actually taught me a 'trick element,' I just see friends do it and we all try it together.

[Isk8NYC]

FWIW, I do teach "tricks" because it's safer for the skaters and it gives them something fun to work on for programs.  I try to spread out the different moves among my students, so they have some variety to show each other. 

I always feel bad for the "leader" when one of the copycats can do a trick better on the first try.

I think that sharing small things like that is fine and actually keeps skaters invested in the sport.  It's a way to share friendship on the ice, as long as it's not something complicated.  I hate it when someone "teaches" a student something too advanced, like a layback for a skater who can't center a scratch spin yet.  Before I know they're playing around with it, they've already self-taught themselves bad technique and habits.

[sk8lady]

I actually talked to the kids' coach a few days ago, before I was able to remember where I put this post (flake, flake...). She's okay with me showing them the tricks although she'd rather the youngest one worked more on her basics. Funny, the kid isn't in a screaming hurry to imitate me when I spend 30 minutes working on my silver FO-BI 3 pattern!! 

[Sk8tmum]

I hate it when someone "teaches" a student something too advanced, like a layback for a skater who can't center a scratch spin yet.  Before I know they're playing around with it, they've already self-taught themselves bad technique and habits.

ITA. I've seen so many dreadful "Bielmanns" "Y-Spirals" and "laybacks" and "Hair-cutters" that have resulted from skaters who are so focussed on doing the "fun stuff" (and often impressing their friends by being able to say they are able to do thus-and-so) - that they don't work on the basics; or skaters who are determined to do their doubles and don't realize that they should be working on making sure their singles are correctly done. Skaters trying to do donut spins who can't do a proper camel ... etc etc etc. Then, when the coach is ready to teach an element to the skater, there is the poor technique to be unlearned, and the time spent doing these "cool" tricks means that it takes longer for the basic positions to be mastered. And, often, they are learning these "tricks" from someone who has taught themselves to do it - and probably doesn't have good technique themselves (particularly kids; adults are more likely to be sensible about these things, in terms of showing it to another and knowing their own limitations).

And, of course, there is the risk of injury: a "Bielmann" and some of the others can cause significant injury to a skater if it is trained and/or done improperly.

Skaters need to listen to their coaches and ask about doing more complicated elements; I do know that our coaches, who are hyper-aware of EVERYTHING that goes on on the ice, will have serious conversations with a skater who is working on "tricks" with incorrect technique and/or neglecting what they are supposed to be working on. Challenging oneself is one thing ... playing about with 'stuff' is another.

[Sierra]

ITA. I've seen so many dreadful "Bielmanns" "Y-Spirals" and "laybacks" and "Hair-cutters" that have resulted from skaters who are so focussed on doing the "fun stuff"

Yup, I can't stand the ugly Biells and other contortionist positions. One coach here actually has this kid doing a Biellmann spin in her program (no-test/pre pre) and the kid is in no way flexible enough, nor can she get past a half revolution before tipping out of the spin. I haven't even tried a Biell on the ice yet (spiral, not spin) because it takes me a half hour to stretch out enough to do one that's not ugly, and I'm certainly not about to go 'show off' an underextended one after stretching for two minutes at the boards.

A great way to force a kid into practicing the basics is to put them in nice, stiff new boots with blades much more advanced than their old ones. The first few times I skated in my new skates, all I did was practice my three turns and crossovers, because that's all I could do. 3turns got quite a lot of benefit from that, and bad-side crossovers improved greatly too.

[Purple Sparkly]

I started working with a new skater a few months ago that has some gymnastics and roller skating (no jumping) experience.  She is 12 and when I started with her she was placed in Basic 4 because she couldn't do forward crossovers.  On our first lesson she told me that she could do jumps after watching some guy on a public session.  To humor her, I asked her to show me and she did a sour cow.  I asked her not to do anymore jumps until I taught them to her so she would learn the technique properly and to make sure she had developed her basic skating skills first.  Happily she obliged and last week she just learned a waltz jump after finishing all of the other skills in Basic Skills.

[aussieskater]

sour cow.

   

[Isk8NYC]

sour cow

I'm totally boosting this for a post count group.  You're the first member!

[Nate]

That's perfectly normal in the figure skating world. The skater would be without training for maybe three minutes.

3 minutes is a pipe dream, especially at smaller rinks.

[FigureSpins]

3 minutes is a pipe dream, especially at smaller rinks.

She was exaggerating, of course, but it really is the preferred method to first notify the current coach before approaching other coaches about availability.  On the other hand, if you start interviewing coaches first, they won't want to accept a student whose family doesn't show consideration for the current coaching situation.  "You can be replaced" is the attitude that communicates and no one wants to feel disposable.  At a smaller rink, you might never find a coach willing to accept you as a new student, as you know.

Is it uncomfortable to say "I think we're going to try another coach - just letting you know in advance."?  Sure, it's uncomfortable, but it opens a dialogue and allows the opportunity to either salvage the current relationship, augment it, or to part company without burning bridges.  All PSA coaches know what to do when a client says "I'd like to talk to you about this..."  If a coach makes a fuss, barring unpaid bills, they have bigger issues than losing a student.  If you're old enough to spend the money, be mature enough to treat people the way you'd want to be treated. 

To address someone's else criticism: this has nothing to do with "ownership" of students.  It's courtesy and professionalism.

[skatingmama]

I have a question, what is the protocol for switching clubs and therefore, coaches? Out of necessity, I am thinking about switching clubs after the close of our spring session. I would like to approach coaches at the new club and find out who would be willing or have time for my DDs. I would definitely let my current coach know about our plans at the end of the session and pay all bills but would approaching coaches at the new club before finishing with the current one be wrong? The reason I am waiting until the end of the session is that my DDs both have tests and competitions coming up in the next month and I wouldn't want to jeapordize their results.

The reason for the change of club is a combination of having outgrown our current coach and availability of a wider variety of sessions in a larger club with more options. I know we will see our current coach at events and I would hate for their to be bad feelings.

[techskater]

Talk to your current coach before you approach a new one at the new club.  Word of mouth travels faster than the speed of light.   

[Purple Sparkly]

The most important thing will be to talk to your current coach before switching and make sure he or she knows why you are switching.

I don't know of any specific protocol for changing clubs.  Unless your current skating club has been fantastic to your family, you don't owe them anything, but you should still be polite to that club's members.  The main issue I have seen with switching clubs (especially from a smaller club to a "better" one) is that the skaters and their families sometimes pretend not to know members of their former club like they are too good to be associated with them. 

Tests and competitions often use judges that are not associated with the host club, so that shouldn't be an issue.  Even if they are members of your current club, judging ethics requires that they judge impartially.

[skatingmama]

Alright, thanks for the good advice. Mostly, I am planning to switch because our current club only offers Freeskate two days a week while the other club has it six and my DD wants to skate more. The two days a week offered are also a direct conflict with my work schedule and though we tried it last year, it wasn't very successful or productive. I don't think our current coach will be very receptive to the change but I have to do what will be in our best interest. I will definitely let her know before moving ahead though.

[RinkGuard]

The May 18 post on Xanboni has an excellent discussion on Private coach vs Group coach.