test track

[falen]

A poster commented on not doing test track.  DD's coach also does not want her to do test track.  What is the deal?  Is it perception.

[FigureSpins]

Always remember, and never forget, the USFSA's charter is to Create Champions for the USA!

In standard-track USFSA events, the skaters are typically doing programs with elements from one or two freeskate test levels higher than the event level.  It might be because they're preparing to take that next test level, or it could be that they're just trying to be competitive with all of the other skaters who compete in that level with higher-level elements.  In any case, the competition is more fierce, higher-level, and challenging than Test Track or ISI competitions.

Test track is US Figure Skating's attempt to entice recreational skaters to compete in USFSA competitions.  Many of those skaters don't compete at all (testing only), or they compete in ISI competitions/events where there are restrictions on the elements.  In test track, the programs are also restricted so that it limits what each skater can do in order to win.

I think there is a stigma associated with skating Test Track, just as there has always been towards competing in ISI.  Those who want to "go for it" will always look down on others.  Mostly, it's ego and attitude.  To me, it's an opportunity for fair competition that can be fun and enjoyable for the skaters.

I'm not sure about coaches' attitudes so much as skaters and their parents.  I know several coaches who recommend test track for less-competitive skaters.  Those who appreciate being challenged are willing to accept their placements in standard-track.

Why don't you ask your coaches why they are recommending standard track? 

[icefrog]

I know some coaches that want their more competitive younger students (I mean younger as in 7-10 pre pre/prelim 10-13 pre juv and 14-16 open juv/open pre juv 16-18 intermidate and up) Basically high school kids in standard track *if they have the skills to be competitive* and test track for the last starters or more recreational kids who still want to go to USFS comps and test in the testing structure. That's how I understand it.

If the kids capable of pulling off a standard open juv program (with up to a double loop and maybe a double flip) and they enter test track to win I think they are sandbagging.

Good coaches don't want kids "cheating" to win and good coaches don't want prefectly talented late starter or slower learners coming in last because of when the joined the sport. That is why they have test track. Some people think open juv is embarresing, some are excited to get that level. It all depends on the athlete and the coach.

Just my $0.02
Sorry for the ramble:)

[falen]

I did  not think to ask because coach should know what is best for dd's ability.  I was just wondering why someone would not want to be, in this case "refuse to go test track".  Test track makes more sense to me, it seems like standard you can do things that you really should not have even seen.   What is embarassing about open juv?

[sarahspins]

When I started skating in the early 90's, test track (well, ISI, since that's what the rink did) was encouraged up until you had at least an axel and at least one double or were working on doubles... after that you converted over to standard track and started working on MIF and testing through USFSA and joined the skating club.  Most skaters I knew didn't bother to test past FS 6 in ISI because of the opposite direction jumps.  There were plenty of skaters who competed in both - ISI for fun, and USFSA as serious competition.

Things changed a little locally when we got another rink in town in 1996, and later in 1997 when they took over management of both rinks, we no longer had an ISI program through LTS, the LTS programs were based on USFSA basic skills.  Currently there is still a local skating club affiliated with ISI, and it is still possible to test and compete with ISI, but it isn't through the rink exactly, it's through the club.

[Sierra]

The coaches here seem to encourage test track. One girl with an axel & a somewhat consistent double sal just tested her Pre-juv and Juv freestyle, I'm assuming she's going to do test track.

There's scads of kids in Pre-pre test track here, a couple in Prelim, and then nothing above that. In my entire region, only one girl does Pre juv TT and one girl does Senior TT. I have never seen any other kids skate TT above Prelim besides those two girls. That's not just my rink, either. It's pretty much the whole circle of competitive rinks in Florida. That's why I don't want to do it.

[falen]

hmm TT is more encouraged?  Dd's is encouraging her to do standard.  I'll have to do some digging.

[icefrog]

If you are young and get so the jumps and are on track to go to regionals in your age group then TT is not encourged. If you are 17 and just got your axel then juv level test track would be encouraged.

[PinkLaces]

In our club, anyone without a consistent axel or double jumps are encouraged to do TT.  The little girls without axels take the PPM & PPF and skate up to the Preliminary level TT.  You can skate up one level for TT.  Once they get their axel they switch over to standard track.  I have notice watching TT events that the jumps are limited, but the spins get progressively harder.  There were quite a few girls doing laybacks in the Pre-Juv TT and that spin doesn't appear until the Juvenile test. 

Teen girls without a consistent axel or double jumps also do TT here.  They are most likely trying to get through as many tests as possible.  They still want to compete.  Many clubs use competition points for ice show solos and features.  Schools that allow HS lettering for figure skating also use competitions as requirements.

There are many skaters that compete test track here.  One thing I have noticed is the decrease in the huge Ltd PP FS at competitions.  There used to be 9 or 10 groups of 9.  TT groups usually only have 2 groups of 6 or 7.

[Isk8NYC]

Essentially, Test Track is a label given to certain events in US Figure Skating competitions.  The skaters have restrictions on the high-level elements they can use in their programs.  

In the same level standard-track event at the same competition, the skaters have fewer do NOT have any restrictions, so they include the most difficult elements they can do cleanly.

[phoenix]

Essentially, Test Track is a label given to certain events in US Figure Skating competitions.  The skaters have restrictions on the high-level elements they can use in their programs. 

In the same level standard-track event at the same competition, the skaters have very few do NOT have any restrictions, so they include the most difficult elements they can do cleanly.

There actually are restrictions at certain levels for standard track:
Pre-pre is axel, no doubles
Prelim is axel, 2 doubles allowed
Pre-juv is 3 doubles
Juv is all doubles including double axel, no triples
Intermediate and up is unrestricted

The function of test track is just as others have stated--it's a good option for a late starter who has aged out of other levels or skaters who would not be competitive because they haven't got the jumps. Test track programs are restricted to what is included on the TEST for that level. So Test Track for Juvenile, would be axel, no doubles.

Skaters who are young enough & who are doing well with their jumps are generally not encouraged to switch to test track because there's no need.

For the older skater testing up is usually a bigger priority because we typically want to get them tested as high as possible before they graduate. So we don't want to hold them back while we wait for the jumps to come, like we do with the young kids.

[fsk8r]

I find it interesting that there's Test track and Standard track in the US as we only have one system in the UK. At the low levels of competitions there are restrictions on elements (at beginners it's single jumps up to loop, level 1 allows flips, etc.). At all levels if the entries warrant it they may be split into age categories. However it's only the top three levels (8 to 10) which entitle you to qualify for the British Championships and you have to reach an IJS qualifying score (which accredits you with a Novice, Junior or Senior test pass). They system is designed to prevent too much sandbagging, although you do spot it at some of the lower levels (level 3 allows an axel although the test doesn't, to be competitive you need it). But as there are so many tests to pass (there's 3 for each level  - moves, elements and free), skaters tend to test up if they can.

[drskater]

(thread drift apologies...)

These stratified hierarchies, as implied by a number of posts on this thread and others, have broader repercussions Among coaches and some parents and skaters, there seems to be a strong set of biases and prejudices against the "easier" requirements of, say TT or ISI competitions. As Sierra has (incorrectly, IMHO) come to believe, skaters who "do" TT are perceived as unequal to their competitive peers. In her case, this conviction appears to emanate from other skaters and probably their parents.

The distinction is only technical in skating terms but the biases have very real consequences. For example, our club (long before me) was nearly torn apart by quarreling about which skaters deserved club funding—"competitive" skaters who put the club's name in lights; or the vast majority of skaters, who skated recreationally.  Naturally, all of this negatively affected rink culture.

Moreover, cultivating "competitive" skaters actually can affect your non-profit status with the IRS. It is the difference between an athletic organization (501 c 3) or a social welfare club (501 c 4). Given the difference in tax deductable write-offs for the two (former = yes, latter = no), it is of almost no $$ benefit for a club to serve non-competitive skaters.

It seems that the effort to include more non-competitive skaters in USFS competitions has led to greater and greater anxiety among parents and skaters, never a good thing.

[Sierra]

(thread drift apologies...)

These stratified hierarchies, as implied by a number of posts on this thread and others, have broader repercussions Among coaches and some parents and skaters, there seems to be a strong set of biases and prejudices against the "easier" requirements of, say TT or ISI competitions. As Sierra has (incorrectly, IMHO) come to believe, skaters who "do" TT are perceived as unequal to their competitive peers. In her case, this conviction appears to emanate from other skaters and probably their parents.

The reason I don't like TT is because nobody competes in it here. It's the same reason I didn't like Basic Skills when I used to do it. Basic had 3 people or less. Maybe in 3 years TT will be bursting with competitors, but right now, I'd be miserable competing in it. I just like to have people to compete against- I'm a competitive person by nature.

    And, to delve further into it, how do you fit certain things into TT? Like spin variations? What determines whether you can have spin variations? Preliminary test requires a sit spin- but are you allowed to do a pancake in competition? Would you be called a sandbagger if you did do a pancake? To truly make TT restricted, there'd have to be rules outlining variations, difficult entrances (like OSE into lutz), etc. Because we all know that some kid could enter TT, stuff their program full of variations above their level (like layover camel & step sequence on one foot in Pre-juvenile), and blow the competition away. And that just defeats the point of TT.

I don't mean to make it sound like I'm trying to make points against TT, I'm just really curious to find out those things.

[PinkLaces]

And, to delve further into it, how do you fit certain things into TT? Like spin variations? What determines whether you can have spin variations? Preliminary test requires a sit spin- but are you allowed to do a pancake in competition? Would you be called a sandbagger if you did do a pancake? To truly make TT restricted, there'd have to be rules outlining variations, difficult entrances (like OSE into lutz), etc. Because we all know that some kid could enter TT, stuff their program full of variations above their level (like layover camel & step sequence on one foot in Pre-juvenile), and blow the competition away. And that just defeats the point of TT.

I don't mean to make it sound like I'm trying to make points against TT, I'm just really curious to find out those things.

When my DD skated Preliminary TT last year, the kids did 3 spins.  One was usually a solo camel or sit spin.  The second was usually a camel-sit spin.  The third was usually either a camel-backspin or a sit-back sit.  Most of the kids who did the sit-back sit could usually only get 1-2 revs on the back sit.  None of the combos were particularly strong.  Didn't seem to matter what the age was.

The Pre-Juvenile TT also did 3 spins.  All of them did the camel-sit combo.  Most of them did a lay-back.  Then they did either the camel-backspin or the sit-back sit.  I didn't see anyone do a pancake spin.  I suppose they could do a sit-pancake combo instead of the sit-back sit.

[Sk8tmum]

The reason I don't like TT is because nobody competes in it here. It's the same reason I didn't like Basic Skills when I used to do it. Basic had 3 people or less. Maybe in 3 years TT will be bursting with competitors, but right now, I'd be miserable competing in it. I just like to have people to compete against- I'm a competitive person by nature.

    And, to delve further into it, how do you fit certain things into TT? Like spin variations? What determines whether you can have spin variations? Preliminary test requires a sit spin- but are you allowed to do a pancake in competition? Would you be called a sandbagger if you did do a pancake? To truly make TT restricted, there'd have to be rules outlining variations, difficult entrances (like OSE into lutz), etc. Because we all know that some kid could enter TT, stuff their program full of variations above their level (like layover camel & step sequence on one foot in Pre-juvenile), and blow the competition away. And that just defeats the point of TT.

I don't mean to make it sound like I'm trying to make points against TT, I'm just really curious to find out those things.

Your coach and/or the person who choreographs you, would/should ensure that your program is acceptable.   As for sandbaggers: they exist everywhere, in Competitive, in Basic skills, and in test track. It simply is a reality of skating. However, I will point out that in test track, at least in Canada, we have restrictions on what jumps and spins can be done.  I will also point out that some kids who do test track do so because they may be exceptionally "good" at some aspects, such as, say, spins, but can't land jumps at a level to skate competitively, thus, their spins may be extremely high level but their jumps are far more basic.  BTW: a pancake is a difficult variation, however, for some skaters, it's easy, and easier than a "true" sit spin.

[icedancer]

Has anyone mentioned that the Test Track competitions are a relatively new idea?  Lke maybe in the last 2 or three years?  I think some regions may have gotten more into it than others.  I know that in our area of the Pacific NW we really don't have enough skaters to really fill the Test Track competition slots.  It may become more popular but so far I think the coaches want it but it hasn't quite caught on yet.

Just my 2 cents.

[Sierra]

When my DD skated Preliminary TT last year, the kids did 3 spins.  One was usually a solo camel or sit spin.  The second was usually a camel-sit spin.  The third was usually either a camel-backspin or a sit-back sit.  Most of the kids who did the sit-back sit could usually only get 1-2 revs on the back sit.  None of the combos were particularly strong.  Didn't seem to matter what the age was.

The Pre-Juvenile TT also did 3 spins.  All of them did the camel-sit combo.  Most of them did a lay-back.  Then they did either the camel-backspin or the sit-back sit.  I didn't see anyone do a pancake spin.  I suppose they could do a sit-pancake combo instead of the sit-back sit.

Wait. Camel in Preliminary? Camel & camel-sit isn't tested until Pre-juv. And a change foot spin in a sit position is not tested until Juvenile. I thought it was restricted to the elements on the test.

Now I'm confused.

[icefrog]

There are no restrictions on spins. Look it up on the USFS website.

[FigureSpins]

I didn't realize it was just geared towards late starters - in that case, it makes sense.

There are limits on spins and jumps in Test Track.  Example: Limited Beginner- and Beginner-event skaters can't do sit or camel spins.  Pre-Preliminary can do up to two spins w/ different positions, but no combinations.  (Camels are okay)  Each spin has to be in one position only, with no change of foot.  TT Preliminary-event skaters can't do flying spins.

http://www.usfsa.org/content/Levels.pdf

Those restrictions were repeated in a few competition announcements I checked.

Icedancer2 is correct: Test Track is still a pretty new concept that needs a little more time to catch on, but can serve a population.


More difficult elements from higher-level tests are allowed because it's cost-effective to pass a level, say Pre-Preliminary, and start working on a Preliminary-level program to use for Pre-Prel competitions and eventually, a Preliminary test program.  That pattern of using a higher-level program follows throughout the USFSA structure in both standard- and test-track.  I rarely talk about sandbaggers for that reason: it's just standard operating procedure.

I think part of the delay in Test Track "catching on" is because it's perceived to be the same as ISI, where you can't do elements above the test level.  It offers the opportunity to be quite competitive due to the limited restrictions, but at a step below the standard-track.  I wish they had put the same-level test element restrictions onto the event so that it would be easier to explain and more familiar for those skaters graduating from Basic Skills to standard-track testing.  If they had made the limits lower, it would have more appeal for the recreational skaters.

[isakswings]

So, when do you know if you should switch to TT? My daughter is standard right now and will be 13 in May. Just curious. I think her coach wants to keep her in the standard track but I wonder sometimes if she should try TT. That said, dd is working on learning double jumps and more complicated spins. I guess this is something I let dd and her coach determine? Right now, I think she can be competitive at the level she is at but she does struggle some with elements at times.

[Sierra]

I have to honestly ask this. What's the point of Test Track if it doesn't correspond exactly to test levels?

It's pretty much exactly like standard track with some spin restrictions thrown in. Standard track, there are jump restrictions for the first five levels.

The spins are higher level than the jumps too. Loop =/= Camel in Pre-pre. Which destroys any thought of my ever going into TT because my best elements would be limited and my worst elements not limited, or limited very little.

[icefrog]

Not exactly. You competed No Test right? You could easily make that program Prelim Test, add a full length step sequence and one more spin and its Pre-Juv test. When your axel is competition ready you can go for Juv and once you get some doubles ready you can try intermidiate.

[jjane45]

I have to honestly ask this. What's the point of Test Track if it doesn't correspond exactly to test levels?

For a while I thought I understood it, but test track now confuses me even more. :giveup:

[drskater]

Hmmm, it really sounds like USFS's attempt to compete with ISI competitions, maybe that's the point? Get as many possible entrants for a competition? To be more democratic and inclusive? To try to actually make some $$$ at non-qualifying competitions?