Most Expensive Coaches

[jumpingbeansmom]

I pay $90 hour to each of her 2 coaches. They were high level/olympic skaters for USSR and the satellite states when USSR came apart. We are in the suburban NYC/CT area.

My general area too-- everything costs alot here

[Query]

Near DC, private coach rates go from about $50/hour - $88 or $90/hour. I think about $45/hour is typical for teaching group lessons.

Why should top skating coaches be valued so much less than top football and baseball coaches, with their 7 figure salaries? Poor under-appreciated Frank Carrol and Tamara Mosvina!

[jjane45]

While I feel Frank Carrol is under-appreciated, it has to do with the structure of the sport. If elite figure skating coaches expect 7-figure salaries, fans will never see stars from less affluent backgrounds like Michelle Kwan or Mirai Nagasu.

[AgnesNitt]

While I feel Frank Carrol is under-appreciated,

Really?

USFSA has made him the highest rated coach in the US.
The movie Rise was practically a Frank Carroll love fest. Its main arc was about his coach and her influence on skating particularly on him, then at the end, there was that long disquisition from Evan Lysacek about Frank's coaching and how he gave Frank his coach's medal from the Olympics.

[Isk8NYC]

I like Frank Carroll and I always enjoy his on- and off-ice workshops.  Well worth the money, imo.
There aren't many people in skating that I dislike, so don't go by me.  He does have lower-level skaters - many attend the summer camps in the hopes of making it onto the elite coach's roster.

Debbie S has said in the past that PSA ratings are a way to judge coaches, yet in many areas of the country, PSA membership was forced on the coaches by new USFSA rules.  Many of the coaches jsut complied with CER because they had skaters testing/competing, but they haven't really pursued ratings.  That includes my former coach, who is a quadruple gold medalist and former Olympian.  She didn't "need" the ratings to prove her worth.  The costs of memberships, insurance, commissions and certifications add onto the expense of coaching and drive up coaches' rates.  When I took lessons from her, my former coach charged $12/30 minutes.  Today, she charges $45 or $50 for the same 30-minutes.

Elite skaters negotiate contracts with their coaches so compensation is handled differently than skaters taking lessons.  Lysacek wouldn't be standing at a desk, buying lesson tickets weekly.  There are invoices and payments, but it's handled more like a small business and the skater usually has a manager.  While I'm rambling, all these expensive cars and hotel rooms may be purchased by the skater's "small business," therefore, it's not a personal expense.  It's a business expense that may be written off later on taxes.  [/endramble]

[drskater]

Debbie S has said in the past that PSA ratings are a way to judge coaches, yet in many areas of the country, PSA membership was forced on the coaches by new USFSA rules.  Many of the coaches jsut complied with CER because they had skaters testing/competing, but they haven't really pursued ratings.  That includes my former coach, who is a quadruple gold medalist and former Olympian.  She didn't "need" the ratings to prove her worth.  The costs of memberships, insurance, commissions and certifications add onto the expense of coaching and drive up coaches' rates.  When I took lessons from her, my former coach charged $12/30 minutes.  Today, she charges $45 or $50 for the same 30-minutes.

ITA!!! Well said.

[fsk8r]

How do PSA ratings work? In the UK coaches levels (ratings) are determined by NISA and there are criteria based on the numbers of skaters they've taken to Nationals and above. Other courses like field moves seminars and IJS rule changes are compulsory if you want to enter skaters for tests and competitions.
Therefore a Level 5 coach will have taken a number of skaters to Nationals and also possibly to Europeans/Worlds, whereas a level 2 coach won't have necessarily taken anyone or not yet reached the number required for promotion to level 3.

[sarahspins]

USFSA has made him the highest rated coach in the US.

I think she meant he's under appreciated based on what his income is from coaching... compared to coaches in other sports (such as football) who DO make 7 figure salaries. 

[Pačiūžos]

This seems like an appropriate place to mention a particularly successful club fundraiser I executed a few years ago.

We sold bumper stickers at the rink during skating events:

"DRIVER CARRIES NO CASH: CHILD IS A FIGURE SKATER."

(And yes, even our coaches were amused!)

[jumpingbeansmom]

This seems like an appropriate place to mention a particularly successful club fundraiser I executed a few years ago.

We sold bumper stickers at the rink during skating events:

"DRIVER CARRIES NO CASH: CHILD IS A FIGURE SKATER."

(And yes, even our coaches were amused!)

Love it!

[jjane45]

This seems like an appropriate place to mention a particularly successful club fundraiser I executed a few years ago.

We sold bumper stickers at the rink during skating events:

"DRIVER CARRIES NO CASH: CHILD IS A FIGURE SKATER."

(And yes, even our coaches were amused!)

may we have an adult skater version too?

[AgnesNitt]

Elite skaters negotiate contracts with their coaches so compensation is handled differently than skaters taking lessons.  Lysacek wouldn't be standing at a desk, buying lesson tickets weekly.  There are invoices and payments, but it's handled more like a small business and the skater usually has a manager.  While I'm rambling, all these expensive cars and hotel rooms may be purchased by the skater's "small business," therefore, it's not a personal expense.  It's a business expense that may be written off later on taxes. 

This is actually very interesting.

[Query]

A very good skater once  told me coaches often charge their best students less per hour than they charge the general skating public. If they didn't, those coaches would be overwhelmed with prospective lower level students. They sometimes temporally drop lessons of the less competitive students just before major competitions, both to travel to the competition, and so they concentrate their time on the potential winners.

I'm sorry if it wasn't obvious I was  joking about under-appreciated top coaches. If you watch televised competitions, the commentators sometimes talk about the coaches almost as much as the skaters. Who in the skating community hasn't heard of Carrol and Moskvina?

Many of those top coaches, and commentators, were top level skaters, and made good money from endorsement deals. Many probably don't need to coach or play sportscaster to pay the rent. I'm sure they see it in large part as a way to give back for the joy skating has given them.

[Doubletoe]

I don't know why some people were so shocked at those hourly rates.  It's not like most skaters actually take hour-long lessons, so the cost per lesson is really 1/3 or 1/2 of that.  There's a lot a good coach can do in 20-30 minutes, too.  My two coaches charge $80/hour ($40 per half hour lesson) and $105/hour ($35 per 20 minute lesson) respectively. They are both Olympians, and, more importantly, good coaches.

[Isk8NYC]

Split off thread drift

[vesperholly]

Charging commission is completely unheard of in my neck of the woods, and I'd like it to stay that way!

However ... coaches are then tied more strictly to the clubs they are allowed to join. Coaches must apply to the club to be a club pro, which allows them to coach on the club's ice. It's fairly difficult to get in to a club as a coach, unless you're going to bring in a bunch of students from another club/learn to skate program, or have Senior MIF/Free (or some other politiking connection). My own club won't even hire me to teach learn to skate because I don't have any Senior tests - nevermind I've been teaching learn to skate for 15 years 

[Sk8Dreams]

While I feel Frank Carrol is under-appreciated, it has to do with the structure of the sport.

USFSA has made him the highest rated coach in the US.

Just a technicality, but Frank Carrol is the highest ranked coach in the US.  Ranking and rating are two different things.  Ratings are awarded based on PSA tests taken.  Ranking has to do with how well a coach's students do in competition.

[jjane45]

Why should top skating coaches be valued so much less than top football and baseball coaches, with their 7 figure salaries? Poor under-appreciated Frank Carrol and Tamara Mosvina!

While I feel Frank Carrol is under-appreciated, it has to do with the structure of the sport. If elite figure skating coaches expect 7-figure salaries, fans will never see stars from less affluent backgrounds like Michelle Kwan or Mirai Nagasu.

I think she meant he's under appreciated based on what his income is from coaching... compared to coaches in other sports (such as football) who DO make 7 figure salaries.  

Just to clarify, my "Frank Carroll is under-appreciated" comment was a direct response to Query's comment about 7-figure salaries. Exactly as sarahspins interpreted above.

It's good to know about the difference between rating and ranking though. Where can we find such rank?

[Purple Sparkly]

For those in the US that have been in the sport for a while, ratings are pretty well known.  Not everyone may know what it takes to earn a particular rating, but they know they exist and that a Master rating is prestigious.

I did not know about rankings until I started getting involved in PSA.  At the bottom of this page is the information on Rankings and how one becomes eligible to receive a ranking.  Note that rankings are not automatically conferred.  You have to apply and pay an admnistrative fee and it is then confirmed by PSA.  Personally, I don't plan to apply for a ranking unless I meet the criteria for Level III or higher.

[Skittl1321]

Well do we really know what Frank Carrol makes on a yearly basis?  I doubt he's pulling in 7 figures, but the football coaches who are make that because their teams pull in so much money for the owners.  And if they are not having winning seasons, they seem to let go pretty fast.

But I've heard a full time coach here in the middle of nowhere tell me he can make 6 figures in a great year (though he's been known the embellish, so who knows), but surely Frank is doing that too, being so sought after.  Even if his hourly rate seems "reasonable" if he can book all his hours, then he's doing fine.  Self employment taxes sure suck though.

If Figure Skating had the viewership of football, and the money earning potential, the coaches would be paid a lot more.  I don't think coaches of Olympic sports tend to be paid the way professional sports do.  The only amateur sport coaches who make a lot of money are for colleges, where the sports pull in TONS of money for the schools.  Way more than the coaches are paid.  Figure skating doesn't work that way.

[jumpingbeansmom]

For those in the US that have been in the sport for a while, ratings are pretty well known.  Not everyone may know what it takes to earn a particular rating, but they know they exist and that a Master rating is prestigious.

I did not know about rankings until I started getting involved in PSA.  At the bottom of this page is the information on Rankings and how one becomes eligible to receive a ranking.  Note that rankings are not automatically conferred.  You have to apply and pay an admnistrative fee and it is then confirmed by PSA.  Personally, I don't plan to apply for a ranking unless I meet the criteria for Level III or higher.

I see the rankings, but where do you see which coaches HAVE these?

[Purple Sparkly]

Rankings and ratings are in the coaches' listings in the PSA directory.  I don't know that this is available to the general public.  I don't have my directory with me, but when I have nothing to do, I could go through it and see how many high level rankings there are.  I might enjoy it a little, I am the girl that went through an atlas to find the highest point in each state just for fun...

[jumpingbeansmom]

Rankings and ratings are in the coaches' listings in the PSA directory.  I don't know that this is available to the general public.  I don't have my directory with me, but when I have nothing to do, I could go through it and see how many high level rankings there are.  I might enjoy it a little, I am the girl that went through an atlas to find the highest point in each state just for fun...

So what good is it if skaters and their parents cannot see it?

[FigureSpins]

So what good is it if skaters and their parents cannot see it?

Some coaches "advertise" their ratings/rankings on their resumes, business cards and coaching profiles. Otherwise, it's just peer recognition among coaches themselves; something to gloat about, but ratings are difficult to achieve unless you have students who are serious skaters.  For a coach just starting out or someone who is only coaching low-level skaters, it's impossible for them to pursue anything above the lowest levels of ratings in any discipline other than Groups and maybe Skating Director.

The USFSA has shepherded coaches into the PSA's membership rolls, but it's artificial growth, because many coaches do not pursue ratings or rankings. 

That doesn't mean that they ignore professional development, nor does it make them less professional.  CER ensures that all test/competition coaches beyond Basic Skills receive continuing education each year.  Many coaches attend workshops, seminars and conferences to expand their coaching knowledge.  They just don't see the need to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on ratings to prove their knowledge to their peers.  That's really who is judging and estimating the coach's skills through ratings.


In many parts of the country, PSA ratings/rankings mean nothing to skating directors and/or parents.    They're really more concerned with the coach's demonstrated skills via their students' achievements. 

The PSA Directory is not available to the general public; however, if you want to verify a coach's credentials, you can contact the PSA directly for that information.