Group lesson evaluation question

[jjane45]

Universities do student evaluations routinely at the end of semester to assess the course / instructor quality. Do / can rinks do it to some extent? If so, what are the criteria? What are the pros and cons? Your thoughts are appreciated!

ETA: the idea came from this blog entry

http://xan-boni.blogspot.com/2009/11/if-i-ran-ice-rink.html

[phoenix]

My rink hands out surveys at the end of sessions & asks that they be turned into the office. They are anonymous.

[Isk8NYC]

I don't know of any skating school, rink or club that does this in my area or where I lived in NYC/NJ.  Occasionally, you'll see a generic "Suggestion Box" at a facility, but most of the comments will be geared towards maintenance and upgrades rather than programs and staff.

I think an anonymous and well-designed survey would be eye-opening for management.

It might be good if an annual survey were administered by a third party, such as the USFSA Basic Skills program.  That way, they can receive feedback to use for tuning programs and act as a buffer for any sharp criticism that might come in for a particular skating school.

Edit: I think that's a great way to manage this, phoenix.  What does the staff do with the survey results?

[phoenix]

They used to go through them & show them to us if there were any concerns or glowing praise. That was w/ the previous skating director. We have a new one now & so far I don't know if she's done anything with them. I think it's a great idea & am glad to give them out to students.

[Isk8NYC]

As long as you're not thin-skinned, it's a great way to get feedback and improve the program.

[jjane45]

The idea came from this blog entry, I wish she is my skating director!

http://xan-boni.blogspot.com/2009/11/if-i-ran-ice-rink.html

[jjane45]

The cons off the top of my head: children who are too young to articulate, parents may not know what is happening on the ice, skating parents making a big scene. . .

[phoenix]

The cons off the top of my head: children who are too young to articulate, parents may not know what is happening on the ice, skating parents making a big scene. . .

It's really the parents filling them out, & a wise skating director takes certain things with a grain of salt. But if the same comment comes up from several parents, then they know there's something to be looked into...

[drskater]

As a college educator I'd say that evaluations are a wise idea. At a minimum, they're good PR, since the skaters/parents feel that they have input into the program where they've invested some money.

I've gotten lots of reasoned and helpful feedback from my students over the years and their comments--if you know how to interpret them--helps improve my teaching. Of course, I HAVE to do student evaluations as part of the whole promotion/tenure system, and knowing that effects how I teach.

The key is knowing how to phrase the questions on the evaluations to prompt useful feedback and suggestions. A poorly worded questionaire leads to ambiguous and contradictory comments.

Instructors and Skating Directors will also need to accept that a bunch of crazy, nonsensical, irrelevant suggestions are not necessairly an accurate reflection about teaching effectiveness and the worth of the program. I imagine that beginning groups (what I teach) will get a lot of suggestions to teach more jumps and spins or requests for more individual attention. If that happens (as it did when my club sponsored a school figures workshop), take it as an indication that instructors need to spend more time explaining exactly what the goals and objectives of a group lesson entail.

Additionally, even if a skating director doesn't require evaluations, an instructor could had out her own (perhaps ask that the forms be handed in to the office).  

[JHarer]

As an adult skater in LTS lessons I think evaluations are a great idea. Neither rink I skate at does this. One rink has a good adult program, with dedicated coaches, the other rink seems to believe adults only skate at a Pre-alpha/Alpha level and so does not offer higher level classes to adults. I have lots of suggestions for that rink.

[jjane45]

My goal is to convince the skating director to allow a small, unofficial survey in a class with coach problems. What would her concerns be? More work, more risk (can't pretend you are not aware)? Undue pressure on instructors to pass students up? Senior coaches backfire?

My rink is tight on $$ but I don't know if they are willing to change to make customers happy.

ETA: I wrote a complaint letter to skating director about the said class and asked

1) Will the coach teach the same class next session? (most likely)
2) Are there other people filing complaints against this coach? (definitely in the past)

If the answer is no to 2) I will propose a survey.

[Isk8NYC]

You can run a survey on www.surveymonkey.com for free, so money shouldn't be an object.

[jjane45]

Well designed online surveys also reduce the labor and time involved to review all feedback. Especially rating report should be easily generated. (4 stars on clarity, 5 stars on effectiveness etc.) Of course explanations will need to be read one by one but still better than hand written forms.

When people sign up for skating lessons ask for their email address, then use an online survey to obtain feedback at the end of session. Only if the skating director is motivated to improve the skating school (skin thickness also comes in).

[isakswings]

As an adult skater in LTS lessons I think evaluations are a great idea. Neither rink I skate at does this. One rink has a good adult program, with dedicated coaches, the other rink seems to believe adults only skate at a Pre-alpha/Alpha level and so does not offer higher level classes to adults. I have lots of suggestions for that rink.

I agree and think evals would be an awesome way to improve a program. I really think new coaches need those evals to help them know what they are doing well and what needs improving. I also agree that adults sometimes seem to get the shaft  bit. I don't think that is the intention, but where I skate it seems they need to give the higher leveled adults a different class thent he begining adults. I know I have the option of taking regular classes, but to be honest, I like being with adults more then kids. I also think at the rink I skate at, they need to keep the same coach teaching adults. The coaches change classes each session and I find it frustrating.

[jjane45]

I also think at the rink I skate at, they need to keep the same coach teaching adults. The coaches change classes each session and I find it frustrating.

Are we from the same rink? It's so weird, right? Most regular classes have "assigned" coaches and they are to be expected for say, 80% of the classes (some substitutions do happen). But the adult classes would have 3-4 coaches rotating on a irregular basis for each week, don't know what makes them different from regular classes.

Maybe that's a question to put on the questionnaire!

ETA: oh I probably read your post wrong. Coaching change from session to session is understandable, our adult classes change from week to week.

[hopskipjump]

I think I would rather call, corner or send an email to the director when things go really well or really poorly vs completing a survey.  All the rinks we use are open to suggestions (sure we don't get our way, but at least we feel listened to!).

Reflecting when my child began skating I might have said things anon that really reflected my ignorance vs real issues.  Talking to the rink manager clears things up quickly.

[FigureSpins]

I also think at the rink I skate at, they need to keep the same coach teaching adults. The coaches change classes each session and I find it frustrating.

The flip answer is to say that you don't get to choose the instructor for groups.  The "choose your instructor" only works for private lessons.  Sometimes, if you ask for a particular instructor, the skating director will try to keep him/her in mind.  Assigning coaches is easy if everyone on staff can teach every level, but some people are better at one level than another.  It just takes one person changing their schedule to create a domino effect of coaches changing levels across the rink.

Changing the instructor often helps the skaters because they're challenged more and the new instructor has a different style.  One coach can say "arms up for 3-turns" over and over and the skaters still hunch over like monkeys.  A different coach might say "shoulders on the circle" once and voila! They're doing 3-turns with proper posture.  It's good to shake up the routine.  Different skaters respond to different instructors - it is a group.

Also, it's good for the coaches to change levels.  It prevents burnout and keeps lesson plans fresh. 

[sk8lady]

I would welcome some kind of evaluation that played into the instructor ranking system at our club. Right now our pay levels are designated solely by freestyle test level, so that an 18 year old high school kid who has junior coached for two years but has passed Pre-Juv gets paid more than any of the adult skaters who coach--it doesn't matter if you have coached for 10 years and have PSA ratings. It would be nice if all the wonderful compliments I get from kids, parents, and even the skating director mattered to the board in determining pay levels!

[Purple Sparkly]

I would welcome some kind of evaluation that played into the instructor ranking system at our club. Right now our pay levels are designated solely by freestyle test level, so that an 18 year old high school kid who has junior coached for two years but has passed Pre-Juv gets paid more than any of the adult skaters who coach--it doesn't matter if you have coached for 10 years and have PSA ratings. It would be nice if all the wonderful compliments I get from kids, parents, and even the skating director mattered to the board in determining pay levels!

I think that is the silliest pay scale I have ever heard!

I am thinking of asking for evaluation on our basic skills program.  I know some parents may have questions and concerns they don't know how to voice, so I want them to feel comfortable telling us.

[Sierra]

Changing the instructor often helps the skaters because they're challenged more and the new instructor has a different style.  One coach can say "arms up for 3-turns" over and over and the skaters still hunch over like monkeys.  A different coach might say "shoulders on the circle" once and voila! They're doing 3-turns with proper posture.  It's good to shake up the routine.  Different skaters respond to different instructors - it is a group.

I totally agree with this. Way back in last year when I was learning salchow, every single instructor I learned from in the groups (about four or five, spread through two different group days) told me a salchow was a waltz jump out of a three turn. Of course me being the analytical teenager I just did not get how to jump forward (waltz jump goes forward) out of the back edge for salchow. I could only manage a tiny sideways hop.
Then one day a different group instructor told me 'start on the LFO edge facing the wall, 3turn and face the other wall, then turn around and face the original wall then jump.' This made TOTAL sense to me and I immediately picked up on how to do a salchow. I credit her fully for my salchow. My private instructor may have eventually gotten me to do a salchow but I suspect it would have taken quite a while.

[Skittl1321]

I think that is the silliest pay scale I have ever heard!

I think my rink might have it beat.

You cannot get hired at more than $10 per hour for LTS if you are under 18.  If you are over 18, you get like $12 per hour if you are below the juvenile test level, $15 per hour if you are higher, and $20 per hour if you have senior tests.  It's kind of a negotiable thing, like most jobs are.  But for minors they are pretty firm. I think it's a mall policy.

Those are your starting rates.  Occasionally, there will be raises, not every year.  But you can only get raises on your starting salary.  So once the guy who started coaching when he was 17 hits over 18, it doesn't matter that he has 2 senior tests and a junior test, he can only get the crappy 2% (or whatever) raise on his base salary of like $9.15.  I couldn't believe that.  I got hired to pick up toddlers in snowplow sam as soon as I finished Basic 8 and I got $12/hour.  (I'm actually a pretty darn good snowplow teacher- but I sure wasn't a good skater when I started!)  This particular skater has been a national novice medalist and makes under $10 per hour for LTS.  I think after a few years of this crap (he's like 21 now) he was able to "quit" and get "hired" at the rate he deserves.

[Purple Sparkly]

I think my rink might have it beat.

Okay, you win!!  (Not sure that it's a good thing, though...)

[FigureSpins]

Is it a municipal rink, Skittl?  Sounds very bureaucratic.

We have a one-price-fits-all for groups; I took a $20/hr pay cut on groups when I moved from NYC. 

I don't know about the assistant coaches/helpers, but everyone else gets a flat rate/hr, regardless of test levels, competition achievement or years coaching.  No rate increase in years and they reduced our perks/raised the private lesson commission rate last year.

[Kim to the Max]

For us, you need to have at least your Juv/Adult Silver freestyle test. If you are under 18 you make $15/hour, if you are over 18, you get paid an average based on your test levels (moves, freestyle, and, if it helps you, dance) and years of experience after age 18. The lowest you will get paid if you are over 18 is $20/hour. I have my juv free, junior moves, and now 3 years of experience, and I get $24/hour. We don't take competitions into consideration.

[Skittl1321]

Is it a municipal rink, Skittl?  Sounds very bureaucratic.

It's a mall.