News:

Welcome to skatingforums.com
The top site devoted to figure skating discussions!

Main Menu

Sharpening: does oil or water preserve hardness and tempering?

Started by Query, June 11, 2023, 04:23:21 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Query

In search of instructions basic tool use, including hand tools, I've been looking at a rather old book: America's Handyman Book, Scribner's sons 2nd edition, 1970. I'm sure it's way out of date, but I haven't found a better source of info, with lots of pictures and clear explanations, that I as an untutored newbie can understand, though Amazon says there was a 3rd edition in 1980.

I like to use a lubricant (originally oil, but I've switched to water because it's less messy - though I'm only using hand tools) when sharpening blades to make a nice clean, smooth surface and keep the sides of the blade smooth.

But many skate pro shops, use no lubricant.

But the book says to use lubricants (like water or oil) to keep tools being sharpened cool, so it doesn't loose it's hardness or tempering. 

Does that apply to modern steel alloys such as are in good quality skate blades?

I.E., is it possible that shops that don't lubricate significantly reduce the hardness (a therefore the durability) of the edge, or make the rest of the blade, which is normally tempered to be softer, I guess to be less likely to break, more brittle?

Sparks that come off powered sharpening machines are often hot enough to glow, which suggests the blade get pretty hot.

Am I correct that hand sharpening tools for sharpening skates, like Pro-Filer and Berghman skate sharpeners, are unlikely to get the blade hot enough for these to be a factor?

What about when sharpening other tools, like planes, made of modern steels? That is often done on a powered bench grinder. Do they get hot enough that water or oil are still desirable to prevent changes to hardness and/or tempering?

BTW, does anyone know a good modern book on hand tool use that applies better to modern hand tools and materials?

AlbaNY

When I do sharpenings, and any I have seen done, no lubricant is used.  Mayyyybe some kind of wax is put on for the final pass on hockey skates, but although trained to do that I see no one actually bothering to.

I could be wrong, but the contact with any one point of the blade during each pass is so quick that I wouldn't expect it to cause any problems.  You have to move the blade fast on a machine or end up with a fish scale kind of effect that shows it wasn't done well.

Bill_S

I would expect wax to help keep the edge cool when sharpening. It's a last-pass option that I've sometimes used. The heat of sharpening is absorbed by the wax, causing it to melt. There's no viable option to use water or oil with most powered skate sharpening systems. A light touch and steady motion while cutting reduce heat build-up. And yes, your hand sharpener would not produce enough heat to affect temper.

Having sharpened both ways, I must say that I could not tell the difference while skating or effects on the life of a sharpening.

Plane blades are sharpened in a number of ways, but a regular high-speed bench grinder would be a poor option. Half-speed grinders with different abrasives are better suited, but there are water-cooled grinders for plane blades, chisels, and knives for optimum results. I have a Tormek T-4 where a vertically mounted slow-rotating wheel (120 RPM) dips into in a small reservoir of water as it turns. When it rotates, it pulls a sheet of water from the reservoir around its periphery and cools the cutting action.
Bill Schneider

Query

Quote from: Bill_S on June 11, 2023, 06:13:39 PM
There's no viable option to use water or oil with most powered skate sharpening systems.

I've seen skate techs apply oil or "polishing fluid" (which I guess is something like oil + a fine grain abrasive), especially before the final sharpening pass. But maybe that was only to create a cleaner edge and/or a smoother hollow, or scratch the sides of the blade less.

Are you saying that water or oil would need to be provided continuously, rather than applied once before an entire sharpening pass, to cool the blade, whereas wax's change of state would give it sufficient heat capacity to keep it reasonably cool with one application?

You say you haven't noticed a difference in edge life, with and without wax. That is interesting.

I guess an introductory level book, especially one written by a committee, like the Handyman book, does not always give the best technical information on the very wide range of subjects it tries to cover.