Which blades could help me with jump height?

[tstop4me]

There have been a number of rapid blade runner interchange systems over the years. But as far as I know, JW and MK, who make the JW Coronation Ace and the MK Pro (they are no the same company, HD Sports, possibly even made on the same production line), have never done that.

Don't know whether MK ever did.  But Wilson did have removable runners, back before they merged with MK.  I don't know whether different models of runners (in particular, for freestyle) were available though.  They still pop up now and then on surplus sites for patch blades.  Here's one: https://sidelineswap.com/gear/hockey/skates/4248433-wilson-new-john-figure-skate-blades-model-88-size-8-75

Looks like a straightforward, fairly robust through-bolt and nut clamping system.

[Query]

Don't know whether MK ever did.  But Wilson did have removable runners, back before they merged with MK.  I don't know whether different models of runners (in particular, for freestyle) were available though.  They still pop up now and then on surplus sites for patch blades.  Here's one: https://sidelineswap.com/gear/hockey/skates/4248433-wilson-new-john-figure-skate-blades-model-88-size-8-75

Looks like a straightforward, fairly robust through-bolt and nut clamping system.

Oh my. That looks wonderful. I didn't know about them. I wish they had kept that up for dance, freestyle and synchro blades. Is there any reason it wouldn't have been sturdy enough? Intuitively, it looks pretty solid to me. AFAICT, they even double nutted it, perhaps so it wouldn't slip - something an electrician once told me he liked to do on electrical terminals.

[AlbaNY]

Don't know whether MK ever did.  But Wilson did have removable runners, back before they merged with MK.  I don't know whether different models of runners (in particular, for freestyle) were available though.  They still pop up now and then on surplus sites for patch blades.  Here's one: https://sidelineswap.com/gear/hockey/skates/4248433-wilson-new-john-figure-skate-blades-model-88-size-8-75

Looks like a straightforward, fairly robust through-bolt and nut clamping system.

This is awesome! 

[tstop4me]

AFAICT, they even double nutted it, perhaps so it wouldn't slip - something an electrician once told me he liked to do on electrical terminals.

I zoomed in.  I think it's a single nut + reflection.

[tstop4me]

Here's another one on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155422385530

What's weird is that the top photo shows both "Super Dance 99" and "PATT. 88" engraved on the blade.  Old Wilson listings I've seen before all used Pattern 88 to refer to patch blades.

[Query]

I guess the Super Dance / Pattern 88 blades wouldn't help much with jump height. They are either meant for Ice Dance or Patch (School Figures) which don't involve much in the way of jumping.

Still, they are interesting looking blades.

[AlbaNY]

Here's another one on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155422385530

What's weird is that the top photo shows both "Super Dance 99" and "PATT. 88" engraved on the blade.  Old Wilson listings I've seen before all used Pattern 88 to refer to patch blades.

Aw man, those are my size!  I was just texting TooSharp skate tech about switching my PIC frames onto the Klingbeils I recently got, because they are more stiff than the Edea waves I have them on now, but now I'm super tempted to get those for figures instead. 

[Nate]

None.

I have three different blades.

Eclipse Pinnacle
Eclipse Infinity
Pattern 99

I also skated on MK Professionals, and I've had different blade lengths so slightly bigger or smaller pick cluster depending on what boot I was wearing. Sizes ranged between 9.75 and 10.5, which is pretty big.

I don't notice any advantage for jumping on any of those blades, except how the rocker profile affects jump landings. Spinning I do notice a difference, as well as in general Skating.

But I have videos going back to 2016 of me jumping doubles and the air time is practically identical on jumps regardless of what blades I have on the boots. I actually had all those blades on a different pair of the same boots up until a few weeks ago and was switching between them almost Session-to-Session. Jumps were always identical. The only time I jump musher is when I try to jump higher, deeper knee bend, stronger push off the ice, etc. Even then, a double Flip or a Lutz will top out at around 0.63sec (0.58 normally) before the jump starts to feel to different and I began popping everything (or cease feeling safe doing it).

Buy a blade based on how well you can skate and spin on them, IMO. The "pick cluster for jumping" stuff is marketing B.S. IMO. Once you learn how to do the jumps, you don't really feel a difference in the pick cluster. It's really all about technique at that point.

The difference in rocker profile and how it affects skating and balance elements like spins are a far bigger deal.

[masterblaster]

Thanks, Nate! super helpful detail.

I've been just working away at building strength in my ankles by doing one foot 180s on the boards (I'm middle aged and must pace myself) and even on my worn out flattened blades I can feel a difference in my stability already. I've also been focusing on height specifically by doing bwd two foot hops with as deep a knee bend and as much toe point as I can muster and there has also been a difference in height after several weeks of that. So even though it felt like the blade (and my stiff ridiculous feet) might have been hindering me at the start, I do suspect it will turn out to be all training and strength that makes the difference in jump height. I will pick my next blade based on which spin rocker works best given the placement under my foot, thanks!

[Nate]

Thinking a little harder on this, I want to amend by saying if you have really stiff ankles, then lift angle can play a factor - particularly for edge jumps, but also on allowing secure picking without having to point your toe so much. That's about it though.


The pick cluster configuration pretty much doesn't matter. What matters is that the lift angle on a pattern or phantom is lower than a gols star or gold seal, so you get to the drag pick faster without having to extend your ankle as much. This is also why I don't think either is better for edge or toe jumps. It actually has more to do with the physiology of each particular skater and the boots they wear.


Phantoms/gold stars also have a 7ft rocker radius which tends to me more maneuverable, so that should be factored in as well. Some people may be better on that rocker profile. You feel the difference when doing things like three turns, etc. But if you're a big jumper an 8ft rocker is going to let you control the landings easier.


In any case, edge jumps exist so choosing based only on toe jumps can often not be optimal. You also need to be able to spin well. For adult skating, spins are probably more important than jumps because you can train them more easily to be great (there is less dependence on innate athletic ability) and you can train them fairly risklessly for extended periods of time. They are worth a ton of points in BV, because the judges tend to be quite stingy with GOE for jumps (and less so for spins).