New boot/blade advice and recomendations

[lara_gold]

Hello Everyone,


Just discovered this forum, my first time posting. I've been doing my fair share of research and though it was finally time to ask for help from your community. I've been looking for a new boot and blade. Excuse my long post I hope you stick to the end.


I'm an adult 25 year old skater, 5'3'', 125-130lbs(depending on the time of year hehe) currently working on all my single jumps and axel prep as well as all spins and footwork. I have all my singles so far besides lutz. I skate 2-4 hours a week.


My first pair of professional skates was Risport Antares 245 (standard C width) with stock blade JSW sterling in which I'm still skating. I was fitted at the skating boutique in Toronto. In my coaches opinion I was underbooted as an adult skater and broke down the boots in a year. They have huge creases on the sides and when I sharpened my skates with Jake he couldn't believe I was still skating/jumping in the boots.


I've heard that the skating boutique is a great place to get fitted but I didn't get that vibe from them and I've been there a few times now. And it's virtually the one good shop in my area so ultimately I'll be purchasing my next pair there.


Risport Antares were my first and only pair of skates so I was curious to try other brands. I found a pair of used Edea Overtures with edea rotation blade in my size 245. The heel height wasn't an adjustment for me at all. I wasn't too keen on the ankle space but I've read that's something you get used to. But I have some heel slippage where both of my heels slightly lift off when I point my boot and skate around. Also I've suffered some arch pain, I think I have high arches and I absolutely hated the rotation blade.


One thing I'm wondering about is if I will need a split width/heel boots. I definitely have a wider ball, tapering into my heel and high arches from dancing when I was younger. I'm including my measurements here.


Right  length - 23.3cm ball - 9.8cm (tiny bunion on this foot)

Left    length - 23.3cm ball - 9.5cm

Heels are 6-6.5cm. I hope I measured correctly, I traced my foot and measured the widest part in my heel area.

My foot is Greek shaped where second toe is longer than the big toe, third toe same length.


If I were to stay with Risport I'm looking at the RF3 or Royal Pro with the Coronation Ace Lite blade. I got to try the royal pro in the shop but silly me just tried them on and didn't lace them up or anything. They felt comfy from what I remember. I'm definitely coming back before the end of this year to buy something just wanted to gather some more information from you peeps.


If I were to get a pair of Edeas I'd go for Chorus and also with the Coronation Ace Lite blade. I also got to try a pair in the shop but again didn't lace up. They felt really comfy. I tried both B and C width and I can definitely say I can't do B width in Edea. However I'm really wondering if Edea is the right brand for me or if I should stick with Risport. Now that my Risport boot is really broken in I've noticed some heel slippage as well or maybe that's because I've been switching between both boots.


I'm just really confused at this point and all this switching around just made me not progress in my skating at all. And instead I'm focusing on how my feet fell trying to pin point and resolve each problem as it comes up.

[Kaitsu]

Short review of Ace Lite blades...https://youtu.be/QlCIbczZ8Ms

[Bill_S]

I've skated in quite a few different blades and you can't go wrong with Coronation Ace or MK Pro blades for intermediate work. The Ace lites are said to have the same profile as regular Aces, so should be fine.

I'll let others comment on Risport vs. Edea. I have my pick (Risport), but it has to do more with the more traditional materials used than personal experience comparing them.

[Query]

I don't know anything about the specific boots you used or are considering. I am basing this only on personal experience, combined with discussions with various skate techs and boot makers, and the comments of other people here.

But a lot of people say that one of the fastest ways to break down boots is to use ones that don't precisely fit your feet. As a one time rink guard/rental desk person, I watched people completely break down new rental boots in less than an hour, because they were too loose, or otherwise didn't fit the shape of their feet.

This is a bit of a simplification, but to a large extant, a crease can form if there is room for it to form. There shouldn't be. The skates should be snug just about everywhere. Most people want a little space to the sides and some people say to the front of the toes, to reduce damage to the feet, and a little space above the ankle just ahead of and behind the foot - but no where else. Everywhere else, the standard (which may be modified if you have certain specific medical needs) if the the boot to apply approximately equal pressure to every other part of the foot - and that should fit several times tighter than an ordinary shoe. Most of the experts say that except for forward/backwards tilt at the ankle, there should literally be no movement of the foot against the boot, completely different from most shoes. Part of that snug fit is in the lacing - I tie my boots just about as tight as I can. But boots should fit as close to perfectly as possible even without that.

A good starting point, if you can remove the insoles from the boots, is to stand with your feet on the insoles. Ideally, the bottom of your feet should perfectly fill the outline of the insole - except perhaps the sides and front of the toes. That's not everything, because you are actually looking for a full 3D fit, but it should be there. Another criteria, possibly even more important, is to observe whether the top of the insole, inside the boot, bends upwards near the ball of your foot. You pretty much want that bend to be directly under the ball of your foot. If it isn't, the stress on your foot could lead to a bone fracture, or other injury. One well respected skate tech I knew said that was the single most important thing to look for in boot fit. He felt that fitters who determine optimal boot length only by measuring the length of the foot were doing it wrong.

If you were underbooted, that means your boot probably wasn't stiff enough. I' had boots (incidentally also Risports, different model) break down in a couple months. And I wasn't doing anything serious, just low level ice dance. They initially fit perfectly, and had been barely used by the prior owner before they were presumably outgrown, but they were only a single layer of leather. And the one thing I did that wasn't completely beginnerish, was that I was taught to do deep edge leans, so the top of the boot brushed the ice during underpushes - a common ice dance criteria. Presumably, those deep edges forced the boot to bend and break down, even though I wasn't jumping significantly. I had carefully lined the insides with adhesive foam so there wasn't really any room for initial creases - but the boots rapidly became softer, until they no longer supported my feet - and if I remember right, they did eventually crease, because they no longer conformed to my feet. I'm not saying all Risports are bad. I'm saying you need boots that will stay sufficiently stiff to do the job, for a long time. If I had to choose between underbooting and overboot, I would overboot.

Boots that can be heat molded to your feet are a good idea. While heat molding can't compensate for everything, heat molding does seem to help a significant amount. If the boots are reasonably close, you can fill slightly loose spots with adhesive foam (like moleskin), to get that snug feeling all over. First, you can use cloth athletic tape under the insole, to make it snug everywhere there.

If your coach is good at this sort of thing, it may be a good idea to listen to what he says regarding boot and blade level. Boot problems are one of the most common problems good coaches deal with, so I believe good coaches should know what is needed. But, for the most part, only you can tell whether a boot fits a given foot - unless you have numb feet that can't feel pressures against them.

[LunarSkater]

I cannot comment on Risport vs Edea, as I wear Riedell. However, of the top competitive skaters at my rink, two wear Edea and two wear Risport. I know Edea is the single brand that people either seem to love or hate.

The thing about used Edea skates is to find out how well-used they are. The padding is memory foam and what fit the previous skater might not now work for you. Used skates can be very hit-and-miss depending on length of use and difference between skaters' feet. And how broken down the used skate is, something else to keep in mind.

If you haven't already, look on the skate company's websites. They should all have fitting charts. Use them. It will help get you in the correct size. If nothing else, it will give you a starting point when talking to the technicians that are fitting you.

A lot of fitters like adjusting for a wider ball to a longer width to get that extra room. It's not good and echoes what Query was saying. It will put you in the wrong size and that will not help you in the long run. (I'm dealing with this myself at the moment. ) It might feel good in the ball, but having a long length will definitely add to the slippage you feel no matter how tightly you lace your skates.

Again, echoing what Query said. Ask your coach for advice.

[Query]

I neglected to say that to some extent, extra tight points can be stretched, another part of fitting a boot. But, the ball of the foot (if you mean the bottom, rather than a bit higher up) is on top of the bottom of the boot, which mostly can't be stretched.

Edea boots, last I knew, are based on a foot of almost uniform width, along the whole length. But a very few very good fitters can modify the shape of Edea boots by heating them just short of the point of destruction - but again, not at the very bottom. Those same great fitters could probably tell you whether your feet are of the right shape for a given brand of boot. But see
  https://edeaskates.com/en/whats-my-size/measuring/
BTW, I might be out of date on that info. Perhaps Edea can now create a true custom shape? They are suggesting you take enough measurements to come close.

I would encourage you to try on non-custom boots before buying, if at all possible. If not, a world class fitter's service and advice is highly desirable. Since people's feet differ, every major brand has both lovers and haters. I think skates are the most important piece of equipment to figure skaters, and new full custom boots (my preference) probably cost less than the combination of your coach, ice time, transportation, and potential medical expenses. A poor fit can create pain, injury, performance issues, and reduced longevity. I'm a cheapskate, but boots are not a good place to economize. At least that is my (not so expert) opinion, and that of many people with more experience than me.

[supersharp]

I neglected to say that to some extent, extra tight points can be stretched, another part of fitting a boot. But, the ball of the foot (if you mean the bottom, rather than a bit higher up) is on top of the bottom of the boot, which mostly can't be stretched.

Perhaps Edea can now create a true custom shape? They are suggesting you take enough measurements to come close.

I would encourage you to try on non-custom boots before buying, if at all possible. If not, a world class fitter's service and advice is highly desirable. Since people's feet differ, every major brand has both lovers and haters. I think skates are the most important piece of equipment to figure skaters, and new full custom boots (my preference) probably cost less than the combination of your coach, ice time, transportation, and potential medical expenses. A poor fit can create pain, injury, performance issues, and reduced longevity. I'm a cheapskate, but boots are not a good place to economize. At least that is my (not so expert) opinion, and that of many people with more experience than me.

I think Edea boots are not truly customizable, just able to be heated and stretched a modest amount. They also do not stretch out with use--the padding breaks down, but the boot won't get wider in spots that rub (which a leather boot will do) because the carbon material needs to be warmed up far higher than foot-temperature to be able to stretch. 

I completely agree with Query that for skaters with feet that are no longer growing, investing in a solid, well-fitting pair of boots is the most important thing.  I had a pair of boots do a lot of damage to one of my feet, and I will continue to live with the consequences forever.  Not worth it.  It's worth taking the time to determine which boots fit your feet correctly.  If your heel is lifting in the boot, you can end up with bone spurs at the back of your heels.

I would add a word of caution about over-booting vs under-booting.  Of course, no one wants boots that provide insufficient support, and it sounds like Lara_gold has skated a fair amount, so this is more of a general comment, particularly for smaller skaters.  Skaters that are in the learn-to-skate levels and the lower free skate levels are learning how to skate by using the combination of joint movements available to them.  If they are over-booted early in the process, they do not learn to bend their ankles as part of this set of movements unless they are either aggressive by nature or have a larger frame (or maybe they are lucky enough to have a really good coach?).  Learning to use the ankle and lower leg properly are critical in developing good technique, both in footwork and in jumps and spins.  Small movements in the ankle and foot can make critical adjustments to the entire body balance and will save the skater from developing a large set of compensatory movements that have to be unlearned over time.  So for a learning skater, whether child or adult, I would rather see them slightly underbooted than overbooted.  But note that I use the word "slightly".  What I've seen is that when the skater is underbooted, the boot gets destroyed earlier than it should.  When the skater is overbooted, the skater's feet and technique suffer rather than the boots. 

Query's previous comments about the skate fitting tighter than shoes and standing on the insole are good focus points when trying on skates. 

When you first put your foot in the boot, it should almost feel too short, and then when you press your heel into the heel pocket, and tie the laces, it should move your foot back into the correct position.  Don't assess the fit until the boot is tied and you have bent your knees and really set your heel into the heel pocket. To really feel how the skate fits, you need to wear your regular skating socks/tights, tie it on, and wear it for at least 15 minutes.  Walk around it it, see if there are pressure points (maybe can be punched out) and see if the heel is lifting.  If the heel doesn't feel really secure when they are new, you will have slippage before long as the padding starts to compact from use. 

Good luck, lara_gold!  Finding the right skates is a big effort, but worth it in the end.

[Query]

...I would add a word of caution about over-booting vs under-booting.Skaters that are in the learn-to-skate levels and the lower free skate levels are learning how to skate by using the combination of joint movements available to them.  If they are over-booted early in the process, they do not learn to bend their ankles as part of this set of movements unless they are either aggressive by nature or have a larger frame (or maybe they are lucky enough to have a really good coach?).

I didn't think of that! When I wore out my single-leather-layer Risports in a couple months, I was still a semi-beginner (and will always be ), but I had had pushy coaches who made me bend my knees and ankles to the limits of my strength and flexibility.