Some people prefer soft, worn out rental skates...

[Query]

Our rink recently bought many Jackson rental skates. They are stiffer, and for the most part better than the 20 or 30 year old blue plastic skates (probably sold through Reidell??).

As many of you know, the American shoe size system has a set of unisex tot sizes for the little ones. Then it has separate size scales for guys and gals. (But, for most shoe brands, boys and mens sizes are the same where they overlap numerically, as are girls and ladies sizes.) While adjacent sizes differ by about 1/3" in length (not counting half sizes), there is no uniform standard of how long or wide each numeric size is - i.e., the origin is not defined, and varies from brand to brand, and sometimes from model to model. In contrast, some European shoes are measured in mm.

For the most part, if a guy wears size n, they wear the same size old style boot. I usually start a size down for ladies - because they are really sized for guys. But not in the tot sizes, which are the same for boys and girls.

However, the new Jacksons seem to act on most people's feet as though they are 0.5 - 1.5 sizes smaller than the (American) sizes marked. They only appear to be about 0.5 sizes shorter - but I think the fact they are so stiff means they don't conform to people's feet.

I have learned that if people say the boot hurts, but going to the next size up make the boot too big, I switch styles.

If it still hurts, I try giving them one of the old pairs that is most broken down, because they don't require as much pressure to conform to people's feet. I've been surprised how many people are happier this way. I guess it makes sense: if your feet don't happen to fit the assumed foot shape that a boot maker uses, a softer boot will cause less pain.

I don't know if this will change after a few years, when the new boots will presumably be less stiff.

This contradicts many people's theory that all skates should be fairly stiff. However, I do try to get people to tie their boots very tight - which creates a different kind of effective stiffness. In particular, I try to make sure they can walk without wobbling. Sometimes I ask if they can jam a finger between the leather and the laces - if they can, I tell them it probably isn't tight enough.

As a matter of fact, I currently skate in broken down skates myself, because they have finally become comfortable, now that they are no longer very stiff.

[lutefisk]

Very unsurprising that most casual skaters prefer comfort over support.  Who wants a pair of boots that are painfully eating your feet?  Support and good fit only become issues if the skater has skill enough to do more than mill around the perimeter of the rink for a couple of hours while taking selfies. Comfort on the other hand is pretty much universal. 

Even within the subset of skaters with skill, isn't this the reason why most of us go through a "break in" period which generally involves getting the new boots punched out or otherwise adjusted to get them dialed in to the peculiarities of the purchasers feet?  Yay for comfort--I'm a big fan. 

Getting back to casual skaters, hopefully the day will soon come where rental boot technology gets to the point where comfort and a minimum level of support will come hand in hand.  Sloppy boot fit (even if comfortable) probably contributes to some of the falls and accidents seen at crowded public sessions. The general public doesn't have the luxury of time to (blocked) with a skate tech to get boots dialed in.  Their only recourse for a pair of painful or ill fitting boots is to go back to the counter and ask for a different pair.  In many cases I suspect the replacement pair is no better than the pair returned.

[tstop4me]

This contradicts many people's theory that all skates should be fairly stiff.

Not sure who these "many people" are.  Certainly not the major manufacturers (excluding specialized companies catering to only elite skaters), which produce lines of boots with a wide range of stiffness, to suit different disciplines and different levels of expertise.

Also agree with lutefisk:  What generalizations are you trying to conclude from casual skaters offerred a limited choice of rentals (a crappy stiff boot vs a crappy soft boot)?

[icedancer]

Well skates in general are much stiffer than they used to be!!!

I had wondered about those newer rentals - they look great because they are not all floppy like the old rentals - but I had heard that they are really not that comfortable so maybe those floppy skates were better I don't know.

[Query]

The new Jackson rentals actually look like pretty good boots, except that they only come in one shape, and are not heat moldable (of course). I also think they could be better padded. I like the padding on high end Jackson competitive boot lines. But, alas, high end competitive level boots might not have been within our rental boot budget.

Getting back to casual skaters, hopefully the day will soon come where rental boot technology gets to the point where comfort and a minimum level of support will come hand in hand.

At least major one hockey company (CCM) makes boots with inflatable liners that mold to customers' feet. (The CCM inflatable lines are called "pump boots".)

They were also available in beginner level figure skates. I don't know if they still are made.

I'm not exactly sure why they weren't super-popular, but would guess that they were much more expensive, too complicated, therefore unreliable, and that many customers didn't figure out how to use them.

Sloppy boot fit (even if comfortable) probably contributes to some of the falls and accidents seen at crowded public sessions.

Not  probably - definitely, almost all rink injuries, at least for newbies.

For a few months, I checked how tight the laces were tied on everyone coming onto the rink during my watch. There were NO injuries on my watch during that time. And, except for some very young kids, almost no one had major problems staying balanced. Then someone complained, a supervisor chewed me out, so I stopped checking, except what is very obvious to look at. (Incidentally, when I was checking, I found that at least 95% of newbies tied quite loose.) At this point, about the most I can do is tell people who important it is to tie tight, and demonstrate how to tie tight - but some people ignore me, and fall a lot and/or get hurt.

I've come to the conclusion that if you have a sports establishment, to make people happy, you have to give them the freedom to make mistakes - and some of them do dumb things and get avoidably hurt. Because it is human nature to object to being told what to do uninvited.

Kind of like motorcycle helmet laws.

But this is getting off topic. I was just shocked that our most worn out, broken down 20-30 year old rental skates are what make some people the happiest.

[Ethereal Ice]

I remember about 25 years ago I went to one of the local rinks a few times and they had the old leather Reidells for rental boots, the brown ones. They were super comfy, and as long as you laced them snug they were wonderful for recreational skating. In contrast we tried another rink that had the blue plastic boots and within 20 minutes of trying to skate I had open blisters bleeding on BOTH feet. No more skating for me that night or ever again at that place. Nowadays I still see those blue plastic skates and shudder, but many places have the stiffer Reidells that are synthetic. They are better than the hard plastic ones but *very* difficult to get snug around the ankle. I felt so sorry for a woman and her friend I saw at the rink today, they kept having to tie and re-tie the rentals that one was wearing. I have worn them myself and they are decent skates except for the awful ankle stiffness.