boot and blade recommendation?

[zyhong]

Just found this forum and it looks great after browsing some threads of this forum. Hopefully I could get some of helpful answers for my questions.
First of all, I pretty much know nothing about skating but my 7 years' old daughter has been doing skating since she is 4. She just completed ISI freestyle 1 and she just got a gold medal for open bornze final (freestyle 1-3) on an ISI event so I guess she is doing just fine. However, I saw she seems to have some challenge on jump landing. I honestly do not know all the different kind of jumps are, it looks she is fine with some very simple jumps but always fall when she is doing a little bit more complex jump. So, I guess this might has something to do with the boot and blade. We have never bought any serious skate boot and blade before and she has been in those lowest level skate boots until half years' ago we got a boot from her cousin that seems to be look nicer and until recently I know the boot is Jackson Artiste with Mark IV blade and the size is 12.5. I have bought an Riedell 91 LS with size 1 that come with an MK club 2000 blade after we decide we buy a new boot for her but we realize that it is way too big for her and we used to think that the boot need to be a little bigger for her to be comfortable and her feet to grow and until recently we realize the boot need to fit very well for skating. Then I decide keep this one for later use and buy her another boot. I ordered a Riedell 29 TS with size 12.5 that come with Quest onyx blade and the seller ship me the wrong size with 12. After some more research, I think this size might actually fit my daughter better (My daughter's feet is around 7" but this size fit 7"3/16 according to riedell's size chart) so I am thinking just keep this shoe instead of return it. So here are the questions:

1. Do you think her current boot and blade (Jackson Artistie with mark IV blade) with drag her progress in her current level?
2. Do you think Riedell 29 TS with Quest onyx blade will work well for her in her current level or we should buy a better boot or upgrade the blade for her.

Thanks for any suggestion/help,

[Loops]

Is there a reason you are doing this all online? It is much better to work with a trained skate fitter; all the boots you've bought are good brands, but a fitter will be able to take all this guess work out of the process and get your daughter into something that not only fits correctly, but is an appropriate stiffness for her size and skating level. Skates really are funny things, they're all shaped a little differently, so there's a little more to it than using a size chart. You should also discuss this with her coach. S/he can advise you on where to get skates, and whether new skates are even needed-it's very very normal to fall on jump landings during the learning process....and even sometimes afterwards! 

The mark iv is a fine beginner blade.

[jlspink22]

If the skates are too big or too small she will have problems so yes get fitted.

My daughter is a 12.5 in jackson or a 12 in Riedell. Her last pair was the artistes with a mark IV blade, but she's 40 lbs. ... Note that artistes only have a support level of 20 which is fine for her but may not be ok for a 50-60lb child jumping. She is currently in a Riedell boot of similar stiffness with a slightly better blade. I'm not sure what type of jumps you are talking about but my daughter was learning toe loop and salchow in the artistes and could land a mean Waltz jump in them.

[zyhong]

"Is there a reason you are doing this all online?"

The reason is because I know nothing about skating and I just recently hear about "fitter" after I bought those boots and do some research. I just heard that there is a fitter in another city and we might make an appointment to visit her soon, but I already made the purchase before I heard about the "fitter". All the shops around our area seems to only carry those recreational boot and blade thus I had to do this online. Again, I am just starting to learn and thus all the questions.

My daughter is 44lb, quite small on her age. I just do a search on youtube on waltz jump and it seems that is the "simple" jump I mentioned. she could do this kind of jump fine but seems she had some hard time to push further for harder jump (axel?). Right now I am thinking maybe the jackson artiste boot with mark iv blade has reach its limit to support her further. However, it seems that she is now quite comfortable with her current boot and thus all the questions. I want to use what I had now if they are reasonable  but I also do not want the boot or blade to drag her progress.

[jlspink22]

Axel is the last jump to be taught... And it takes a while to master each! Looking at ISI she's probably learning a lutz or salchow.

Is she wearing the Riedell now? Are you having the blades sharpened enough? If she is that small you will be fine until she outgrows, assuming they are the correct size.


Will a better boot and blade be needed at some point - yes. Will just buying better boots and blades now going to make her land those jumps? Not necessarily. 

http://www.iceskatesnblades.com/riedell-skates.html

The 29TS model is about one step up from the artistes according to this link which is what I'm basing my opinion off of.

[jlspink22]

Keep in mind you don't want to go so stiff that they are painful to break in or hold her back because she can't break them in.  I can tell you that jackson freestyles were difficult for my daughter to break in and they were only a 40 in stiffness.

[Loops]

If you're just learning about all of this, I would heartily encourage you to have a chat with your daughter's coach and go see the fitter in the next town.  You run the risk of wasting a lot of money buying all these boots online. As you're discovering, there is a lot to learn. You can learn a lot via the internet. I would encourage you to visit kinzies closet if you haven't already. They have some interesting tables and charts. But I think you get more out of your "in-person" resources, your coach, fitter (who will also be your skate Dr, and maybe sharpener, too) and the other parents at the rink.

[zyhong]

Again I check youtube for those jumps and it seems she could do the salchow jump fine now but not the lutz jump yet. Not very sure though as I really do not know too much about all those jumps. There are  a lot of them and they look kind of all the same for me. lol

She did not wear the riedell boot and I have not touched the boot yet (No sharpening yet). Only let her trying to fit the boot once  and she told me that the ankle hurt. But since she always whining when wearing a new boot so I guess it should be just take a little bit time for her to break in. Also, I just saw the riedell boot is heat mold-able so I might just tried that if I decide to keep this boot.

Talking about stiffness I am also confused about this as well. Jackson artiste claims a stiffness of 25 and Riedell 29 claimed a "boot support level" of 60. Also, Riedell 91 claimed "boot support level" to 70 but it looks Riedell 91 is much more stiffer than riedell 29. So, how the stiffness of jackson model related to riedell "boot support level"? One of the reason why I choose riedell 29 instead of riedell 91 as in the begging is that I saw Riedell is quite stiff and I am afraid it might be too stiff at her level (Although riedell's charting show 91 model should support fs1-6. Not sure if this is the right conscience though.

By the way, thanks very much for all the replies. Appreciate it very much. They help me a lot.

[jlspink22]

Boots are rated for stiffness based on youth/young adult sizes rather than grown adults or very small children.  I have an old pair of artistes and freestyles sitting here to be sold and you can feel the difference in "give" or hardness of the leather around the ankle. 

A 29TS is NOT the same as the new 29 stride. The actual TS model is rated at 45 which is similar to the freestyles (which are entry level freestyle boots). 

Don't be surprised if she loses some skills until the new skates are broken in. And when you do get new skates make sure her coach knows so he/she can look for problems.

And you want to check in with a fitter to make sure the width is ok too. Reidells are more narrow than Jackson's. My daughter prefers Jackson's.

[zyhong]

ye, I should have talked to the coach and tired to look for a fitter before I made the purchase. The more I look into this, the harder for me to make a decision. It looks just ask the kid to fit the boot would not work either as they will always complain with a new boot anyway and you just could not tell if the boot is right fit for her. I guess I should definitely go for a fitter before I make any decision.

By the way, do you guys think upgrading the blade with her current boot (jackson artiste) could also be an option since the size of her current boot looks to fit her just right for now. If this is an option, which blade would you recommend for this boot?

[jlspink22]

Do you have a pic of the boot? Are they plastic soles? If so I would not even bother upgrading the blade... If she likes the artiste, the classique is the same style with a mirage blade and a tad stiffer.

[jlspink22]

If you look at sizing charts, if you wait for her to outgrow the 12.5 Jackson's, she will likely outgrow the 12 in reidells too.

[zyhong]

I do not have a pic handy for the boot but I am pretty sure the soles is plastic (PVC). For Riedell 29 TS it is PVC as well. So I guess upgrading blade are not option for both of the boots. I think I am seeking some comments if blade really matter on her skate level or a better blade/boot would make the jump easier for her.

Actually I do not think she has any preference on boots. She just does not want new boots. And yes, I had realized jackson 12.5 is pretty much the same size as riedell 12. I had ordered riedell 12.5 but the seller ship the wrong size to me. I am thinking if the new boot would give her a little more than half year then I might just do not bother to return the new boot. But, I am also not sure if half year of time worth the effort to break in a new boot.

[jlspink22]

I wouldn't worry as much about the blade (unless it's a recreational only nickel blade, which it is not) and more about the current boots support. I've seen my own daughter and other kids in broken down boots and unsupportive boots. They wobble, their ankles are not straight. The boot may have deep creases etc.  My kid complains about new skates too but we get them molded/stretched/adjusted to make the process less painful.  If you can return the 29s I would return them and then go get fitted.

If not returnable, AND they generally fit, personally I would get the adjustments done to make them work for the few months she'd get out of them and then sell them used on ebay.  The reason I'm saying this is because it sounds more like her current boots may be broken down. My daughter outgrew her artistes in 3 months but I can tell you that they would not have lasted more than 6-8 at her current skill level which is similar to your child's.   

[jlspink22]

We are in pair #4 since starting last February (lessons since April 2014) so my opinion is coming from hours of researching while trying to be as cost efficient while I can.

[zyhong]

wow. your kid were making great progress and I guess she work pretty hard on skating as she broke down so many skates in such short time:)
my kid used to skate quite shaky and just getting much better recently. I always told her to hold it but now I realized one of the reason might be we did not give her proper equipment support for a long time. Anyway, just called and made an appointment with a fitter today. Learn a lot from your guy's replies. thanks again for all the helps.

[jlspink22]

Take the 29TS with you just in case, you don't have to bring them in to the shop initially, but if they are the right size, support level you will have them there and can get them heat molded or punched out at the ankles where they hurt. Worse case she finds something better she likes in the shop. Let us know how it goes!

[Loops]

I think you've gotten some good advice from jlspink22.  If you can return those Riedells I would, but only after the meeting with the fitter, if you can wait.

And for the record, no-body likes new skates.  They're stiff, they hurt, and they don't know the steps.  With kids it's even trickier though, because you don't know if the skates hurt because they don't fit right, or simply because they're new.  Heat molding definitely would help with that, but I don't think it's magic.  Of course a 7-year old is in a better position to communicate fit issues than say, my 4 year old.

Also for the record, it sounds like your daughter is doing just fine.  Her troubles may be skate-related, but they do sound like just old-fashioned learning, too.  While better equipment may help, it won't be magic. If her skates still fit, and offer her the support she needs, there's no reason to get new ones.  The fitter will be able to help you decide, and if they're a good fitter, they won't try to sell you something you don't need.  This is also a good chance for you to get a feel for the local skate resources.  If you have more than one skate shop in your area, it's worth it to check them all out; you can just walk in and talk to them you don't necessarily have to do the full on fitting.  Ideally you want a fitter who works with several brands of skates since all the brands fit a bit differently, and can do modifications to the boot beyond heat molding, this will mostly involve punching out.  They'll also probably be your blade sharpener, too, unless you're lucky enough to have a good one of them in your rink!  So it's good to work with someone you trust, since this will be a relationship that will last as long as your daughter skates (and you, too once you get bitten by the skating bug!).

If your daughter does turn out to have a Riedell foot, the pain around her ankle could be because they're too tight around the ankle bone (among other things....), the easy fix for that is heat molding with an additional punch-out, if necessary.  Like jlspink22 said, maybe the fitter can do the modifications to those boots and you'll be good to go.

In terms of blades, unless you have pre-mounted blades on PVC soles, you can put any blade on any boot.  So you're not limited in blade choice by the boots you have.  I think you said she's on a Mark VI? It's a fine beginner blade.  Ultima, MK and Wilson all make very good blades, as do Riedell (the Eclipse).  You can choose from any of those marks and be just fine.  I think most people go into an MK Professional or a Wilson Coronation Ace (or the Ultima or Eclipes equivalent) at your daughter's level, or a bit higher.  Discuss it with her coach.  Like with new boots, a higher level blade won't be magic, but it could help with some things.  Get them used if you can, too!  But be sure to have someone who knows what they're looking at evaluate the blade (with you, so you can learn), to make sure the spin rocker is still there and that there's plenty of sharpening life left.

Good luck with the fitter, and let us know how it goes!

[zyhong]

Here is what I got from my visit with the fitter:
1. it turns out the that the riedell boot is actually 12.5, not 12. I expected to see 12 1/2 or 12.5 but riedell mark it as 12-. And the size fit my kid just fine.
2. The fitter recommend "edea overture" but she also confirmed riedell 29 ts would work pretty well. She mentioned the reason why she preferred edea is because edea boot is easier to break in. And riedell boot often premount with a low quality blade and is quite annoying.
3. The blade she recommend for this level is paramount blade. I could not recall the blade model but the price is around US$190. I end up upgrading the riedell 29 ts boot with this blade with her. Just do not want to go through all the troubles to return the boot and order a new boot since the size and support level seems to work well with my kid.

By the way, in case anyone looking at this for making a decision. The fitter is a coach who is doing some dealership business. I guess she work pretty close with edea and paramount from my observation so her opinion might be biased. For me, I never heard of these brand before. One bonus with the visit, the paramount blade could be colored and my kid pick a pink one. I guess that would motivate them to wear the new boot.

[jlspink22]

Gracie gold and a few others wear the Edea ice fly.  I would suggest reading up on the different brands, fits (or lasts) and blade types for next time.

Most higher level boots (in the overtures $$ range) are bought without a blade, so if Riedells fit, they fit. Good luck to your daughter in her new skate/blades.

[Loops]

Yay, glad it went well!  Good luck moving forward, and to your daughter!!!  (pink blades!  Mine would be jealous.....)

Now you have time to start learning about all this stuff without the pressure.  You'll be fearless for the next pair of skates!