Crasche Middie Sizing?

[ARoo]

Does anyone have one of these? It says that you can make the band fit tighter by turning around the protective elements, but without knowing how it's constructed, I'm not sure if that means you can make them smaller than the low measurement suggests or if you need to do that to use the band within the range they state. Does that make sense?

Basically, I am wondering if I should get the small (under 21") for my daughter's 20.5" head or if I can get the medium at 21" and over and do the insert switch to make it fit to 20". I don't want to have to get another one in 1/2" but I also want it to fit well. If it matters, I can sew. But not knowing how it's put together, I don't know if I can alter it.

Maybe someone would be willing to share pictures? I can only find the basic marketing stuff from the web site.

[dlbritton]

Does anyone have one of these? It says that you can make the band fit tighter by turning around the protective elements, but without knowing how it's constructed, I'm not sure if that means you can make them smaller than the low measurement suggests or if you need to do that to use the band within the range they state. Does that make sense?


Maybe someone would be willing to share pictures? I can only find the basic marketing stuff from the web site.

I have a Large Middie and will post some pics tonight.

[dlbritton]

The band is somewhat stretchy so it can expand a little bit. My first Crasche (Large) was really too tight, this one is just a little looser, but enough to be more comfortable. There are a total of 6 pads that can be "flipped" to make it a little tighter. I don't believe it can be altered much in order to tighten it. It could possibly be expanded by sewing in a little extra material, but my wife said she thinks it would be very difficult to do.


Album of 10 pics at:   https://goo.gl/photos/gsi2dSX8F84EfCRK7

First picture of 10


Front pads "upright".



Front pads "reversed"

[scooter]

I bought this last spring when my daughter was returning after a concussion. She absolutely hated it. Even after I covered it with polar fleece to make it more comfortable and less conspicuous, she wanted NOTHING to do with it. If it is positioned low enough to cover the base of the skull, it really restricted her head movement.

[skategeek]

I used one for a while but while it has a hard component for impact, it doesn't have much cushioning to slow down deceleration when you hit.  I've switched over to the Ice Halo HD.  But when I used it the fit was pretty good. 

[lutefisk]

I used one for a while but while it has a hard component for impact, it doesn't have much cushioning to slow down deceleration when you hit.  I've switched over to the Ice Halo HD.  But when I used it the fit was pretty good.

How do you like the ice halo HD model?  I have the standard ice halo and have "tested" it in a backwards fall.  It saved me yet another ambulance ride to the ER but I wonder if the HD model would have been better.  They claim that it's "sleeker" but sleek isn't the quality that I'm after--I want more protection.

[skategeek]

How do you like the ice halo HD model?  I have the standard ice halo and have "tested" it in a backwards fall.  It saved me yet another ambulance ride to the ER but I wonder if the HD model would have been better.  They claim that it's "sleeker" but sleek isn't the quality that I'm after--I want more protection.

I haven't actually properly tested it yet (no falls), and I've seen a regular Ice Halo once but haven't really looked closely at it.  Supposedly they've both been tested up to some hockey helmet standard, though it's hard to say what that really means in the context of the kind of hit I would personally be most likely to take.  (I'm less worried about hard hits and skull fractures, more worried about slower hits that could result in concussion, etc.)  But it "feels" safer to me than the Crasche, for sure.  I'd love to get more real data of some sort on all of these non-helmet options.

[riley876]

I'd love to get more real data of some sort on all of these non-helmet options.

If anyone wants to send me some of the foam, then I can put it on my very own helmet-foam-drop-test-rig.   It's not calibrated, but I can give comparisons vs common helmet padding materials (plus a zillion other things from around the house that I've tested).

[beginner skater]

Lutefisk & Skategeek, I emailed the ice halo people to ask how the HD compared with the ordinary Ice Halo, and they said HD provides slightly more protection. They also attached the certification, which I have pasted below.

The Ice Halo and Halo HD were tested according to: CSA Z262.1-09 (April 2009) Annex A, Hockey Helmet Standard which is equivalent to ASTM Worldwide Standard.  The Impact Drop Testing was performed by Biokinetics and Associates Ltd., Ottawa.  Biokinetics is one of the top impact testing facilities in the world. This standard allows a maximum impact of 275 G with a helmet.
The results of the testing provided the following information:
Measured impact with no protection was:
to the side of the head:    393.8 G average
to the front of the head:   296.6 G average.
Measured impact with an Ice Halo:
the side of the head reduced to 220.5 G average
front of the head was reduced to 201 G average
Measured impact with a Halo HD:
the side and front of the head was reduced to 211 G average
Total impact to the front of the head was therefore reduced by at least 95.6 G average and reduced by at least 173.3 G average to the side of the head, compared to no protection. The Ice Halo passes the hockey helmet standard for side and front impact, which allows a maximum impact of 275 G with protection. The Ice Halo and Halo HD are the same density all the way around the head; it is the point of impact which creates the minor variance in the averages.
There is no CSA standard available for protective headband testing; they must be tested against the above Hockey Helmet Standard. Therefore no protective headband can claim to be CSA or ASTM approved or "passed by the CSA or ASTM". Protective Headbands do not have the hard outer shell, a 'top' or a chin strap and therefore cannot be given a "pass" certification.  We can provide a video of the Ice Halo being tested by Biokinetics upon request. The Ice Halo Ltd. team is part of the ASTM International Worldwide Standards Sub-committee team currently working on developing a stand alone standard for protective headband testing.

Hope that helps. Maybe someone with a physics background can explain the relevance?

[riley876]

For reference, a solid punch to the head in boxing is about 75G.   

Z262 specifies an impact velocity of 4.5m/s.    This is equivalent to a free fall from slightly over 1 meter.    Also the headform used in Z292 is only 2.5kg, which is about half of what a real head weighs.

The 275G passing standard is as far as I can tell above the level at which concussions can happen.    This is why people keep on saying "helmets don't stop concussions", because in general they're dead right, because helmet standards are so ridiculously lax.

Personally I'd consider 200G to be an awful result.   Better than 393G admittedly,  but still awful.   For my DIY halo helmet I've targetted and achieved, what I believe is around 80G for a 1m free fall onto the rear.    Admittedly it's a bit chunkier than an actual Ice Halo, but that's the price you have to pay.

That said, I believe 200G is probably a better result than your average hard polystyrene skateboarding style helmet would achieve in this test.  So you're better off with an Ice Halo than one of them.   Sounds like Ice Halo is no worse than your average hockey helmet either (which really isn't saying much).

[lutefisk]

I haven't actually properly tested it yet (no falls), and I've seen a regular Ice Halo once but haven't really looked closely at it.  Supposedly they've both been tested up to some hockey helmet standard, though it's hard to say what that really means in the context of the kind of hit I would personally be most likely to take.  (I'm less worried about hard hits and skull fractures, more worried about slower hits that could result in concussion, etc.)  But it "feels" safer to me than the Crasche, for sure.  I'd love to get more real data of some sort on all of these non-helmet options.

The standard ice halo is a flat strip that one wraps around the head and then adjusts the snugness of fit via an overlapping Velcro closure.  Skategeek: correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that the HD ice halo is a pre-formed circle which fits over the head like a doughnut and is not adjustable.  If this is so, then I suspect getting the proper size for one's head would be very important.  Too small and it might be uncomfortable to wear.  Too large and it might not stay in place.  Additionally, I think, that the HD model ice halo while being made of a higher density foam, is somewhat thinner than the foam in the standard model.  It's a shame they don't supply the HD model with the increased density foam at the same thickness as the standard model.  One assumes that configuration would offer even more protection.

[ARoo]

I ended up ordering the small. It fit my daughter but she wouldn't wear it. I should have known just based on how picky she is. It's like acid on her head. Looks like this is a fail for us. I guess her brain isn't all that important.

[Ethereal Ice]

If anyone is interested, I have the actual Crashe Cap. I got the light weight knit one, basically the one for summer, and I wear it with a fairly thick knit hat over it. The cap itself does not come down low enough in the back for my liking but the knit hat worn on top makes a nice roll of padding at the base of my skull and then over the whole thing.

As others have said, the protective panels are very hard. If I hit my head with my current set up on, it would be soft first then the hard panels, I believe it would give some protection, certainly better than nothing at all. I have fallen with it and it stayed in place fine (did not hit my head but did fall backwards), but I do not think the Crashe cap alone would stay in place because it is too short, it basically needs something else over it to help it stay in place. That appears to be true of both the winter and summer models, knowing I would have to wear something over it I did not want the heavier fabric of the winter model.

That said, the biggest issue with my set up is that it gets too hot. I did not wear mine much of the summer due to over heating, now that it is getting a bit cooler and the rink is emptier, my head is getting cold and it is nice to have it on.