New here! Buying new skates.

[roseselene]

Hi! I'm brand new here.  I'm so glad I found this forum.  My daughter is needing new skates.  She currently has this:

http://www.figureskatingstore.com/product_info.php?products_id=1233&osCsid=fbtkfk2bes92iuj91md3isnb75

She has the attached Quest Onyx blade.  She is currently in ISI freestyle One.  I really want to be able to get her better skates -- maybe a better blade is what she needs, but without going completely over budget.  I'd like to keep it at $300 or less.  The staff at her rink is of absolutely no help whatsoever. They only recommend the $99 ridell's that they sell.  They insist that those are all the skates she'll ever need for quite some time.  I know that is not true, and I already purchased the slightly higher quality ones I referenced in the above link.  Can anyone make any recommendations for a nine year old in Freestyle one ?
I'm so sorry if I sound like I have lack of knowledge on this. I've read a lot on the internet, but its difficult to distinguish between sales pitches on web stores, and useful information.
Thanks for any advice!!
Amy

[Sk8Dreams]

Ask her coach first.  There is no point in spending more than you need to.

[roseselene]

Yes, I plan to check with her coach too, its just frustrating because they all seem to want you to buy these one pair of riedell skates. I'm not saying they are bad skates, but it seems like that is all they recommend.  Just by reading around on the internet, that doesn't seem to be accurate information. 
Amy

[Sk8tmum]

Looking at what is in Freestyle 1 and that your kid is 9 years old ... the TS 133 is more than enough ... in fact, I know of one coach at least who would scream "overbooting" in that boot !!! - unless your kid is already 5'6" tall and weighs 110 lbs.

My 9 year old uses the 133, she likes them, is doing the same stuff your kid is doing. They work. Took some effort to bend them though ... she only weighs 45 lbs (note comment re: overbooting from coach; we should be down a boot level, but, there's a story involving Riedell having to make adjustments to the boot to accomodate a 4AAAA size 1 foot, which could only be done in the 133 and only with some work).

All you're working on is waltz, half-flip, two foot spin and some edges, right? The TS 133 is a decent little boot, and the blade has a decent little pick. If your kid is 9, she'll probably outgrow them in 6 months anyways.  The important thing is if she can bend them ... which will depend on her height, weight, and skating ability. 

Enjoy the days of being able to buy reasonably inexpensive skates.   You'll get to the "$300 is really cheap for skates" soon enough. I actually think it's kind of nice that your rink staff is trying to keep you in inexpensive skates ... the bigger nightmare comes when they try to sell you too much boot, and you end up wasting money that could have been spent on lessons, and your kid gets frustrated in a too-stiff boot that won't let her progress.

Ask your coach. The single most important thing for your kid is the skates (actually, it's the coach ... but, I mean in terms of equipment).

[Skittl1321]

If you really want another boot to look at, see if you can find Jackson Freestyles to try on. That's a good boot for the level.   

[Orianna2000]

I had the same trouble at my rink, the coaches all recommend Riedells, no matter what. For some, it's because they sell them on the side, so they're loyal to the brand. I don't know why the others do it, but it's very frustrating when you don't want Riedells.

Definitely have her try on a few different pairs of skates. There's a huge difference between Jackson and Riedell in the way they're shaped and the way they fit. Jacksons fit my feet comfortably (when they're wide enough) whereas Riedells are very uncomfortable and will never fit my feet properly. But it's different for each person, so she really needs to try them on to see what works for her. Jackson has a feature on their website that allows you to find the nearest authorized distributor, so you can find someplace that will let you try them on.

[sarahspins]

I had the same trouble at my rink, the coaches all recommend Riedells, no matter what. For some, it's because they sell them on the side, so they're loyal to the brand. I don't know why the others do it, but it's very frustrating when you don't want Riedells.

This is true at most rinks, honestly.. and a lot of it has to do with the fact that Riedell has been in the business a LONG time, and they have a very strong presence, and it may very well be that their wholesale pricing is better than some others, so they make more money on them, but it's hard to say for sure - I've never seen the numbers myself.  I do know that it's really expensive for them to carry any extensive amount of inventory for just one brand (with different boot models, etc), never mind several.  At my rink a vast majority of skaters wear Riedell, and those that don't are predominantly in SP Teri's, which our pro shop only keeps in stock in a few sizes and only in A widths (and when I say a few, I think they maybe had 6 pairs the last time I was in the storage room).  Harlick and Klingbeil make up a very small minority and are usually fit by another pro shop or independent fitter (though our good one moved away last year).  I've never seen another (regular) skater at my rink in Jacksons wearing anything above their recreational line (which is easy to spot because those all have PVC soles).

[sampaguita]

In my old rink, a lot of girls wore the 33, and they were doing elements from ISI FS3. I had the 133 (adult version of the 33), and I can attest that they will work for FS1.

Why does your daughter need new skates? Have the skates broken down? If they have, then the 255 (don't know what the child version is) and the 910 are the next models to consider.

Be careful about buying new skates - just because it is more expensive doesn't necessarily mean it is better. Skates get stiffer and stiffer as you go up the price range, and if you buy boots that are too stiff, it will slow down your daughter's progress.

[chowskates]

Definitely have her try on a few different pairs of skates. There's a huge difference between Jackson and Riedell in the way they're shaped and the way they fit. Jacksons fit my feet comfortably (when they're wide enough) whereas Riedells are very uncomfortable and will never fit my feet properly. But it's different for each person, so she really needs to try them on to see what works for her. Jackson has a feature on their website that allows you to find the nearest authorized distributor, so you can find someplace that will let you try them on.

Agree she can try on different skates. However, the OP said her daughter is already in Riedells, and if it is not posing a problem for her, I usually would not immediately recommend changing to another manufacturer (that's the reason why I've been in Riedells all my skating life!).

[roseselene]

Hi! Thanks for all the replies! In response to the one questions, she needs new skates because her feet grew, so its time to get new skates so that is why I was looking at this question.  I think by the responses, I'll definitely stick with that boot.  What about the blade? Is there any reason to upgrade to a different blade at this point? Or just stick with the quest onyx that it comes with?
Amy

[Sk8tmum]

Hi! Thanks for all the replies! In response to the one questions, she needs new skates because her feet grew, so its time to get new skates so that is why I was looking at this question.  I think by the responses, I'll definitely stick with that boot.  What about the blade? Is there any reason to upgrade to a different blade at this point? Or just stick with the quest onyx that it comes with?
Amy

The 133 is a boot/blade combo. I know Riedell is offering some of its low end boots with an optional blade upgrade, but, not the 133 as far as I know.  Again, ask your coach. We can't tell you what boot or blade your daughter needs, your coach is the one that you must consult in this.

[sampaguita]

I agree with Sk8tmum about asking the coach, but from what I understand, the coach is pretty set on the $99 skates (my guess is the 110?)

The Quest Onyx blade will do well for FS1. If you look at the 255/910, they also come with the Quest Onyx blade, and those combos are rated until FS4. If your daughter is 9 years old, that means she will have to keep changing boots AND blades, so getting an expensive blade will not just be more expensive upfront, it will also be more expensive over time since you can't use your previous blades on new boots.

Maybe you can ask your daughter too: does she feel she needs bigger toepicks for her jumps? Does she have complaints about her boots and blades?

[sarahspins]

The onyx blades are really fine through all single jumps.. just because they are a stock blade doesn't make them inferior (there are some that are, but the onyx is not one of those), it just makes them one of the cheaper options for you right now.  There are other more expensive blades that could also work just fine for her (like coro ace/professional), but I don't know that it's really worth paying the difference at FS1 with a 9 year old who may very well be in a different size in 6 months.

If the 33's she had are working well for her (aside from being too small now) I would stick with them unless her coach is suggesting a move up, which is usually around the time younger kids start working on axels and doubles.  I'd definitely suggest talking to the coach before buying anything though

[roseselene]

Thank you all so much for the advice.  I really appreciate it.  Her coach is not the most available person on the earth and I'm actually considering switching due to that.  The pro shop at our rink caters mostly to hockey and literally has the figure skates labeled "expensive" and "not expensive"  That's their whole labeling system.  The reason I asked about the blade upgrade was because on the website Kinzies closet, it shows that same boot with an available upgrade to an Eclipse Crescent.  However, it sounds like you guys are all saying like she is probably going to be ok with what we already have.  She hasn't complained or anything (other than that her feet grew), its just I didn't know if I should be moving her up.  I get very little feedback from the coach and rink staff.  Pretty much all the parents feel that way, so I don't think its just me.  I can't expect my nine year old daughter to understand what she needs to help her with her skating, and the feedback from them is lacking.  I do appreciate your help here.
Amy

[MadMac]

You might want to try communicating your questions to the coach via email. That would give the coach time to consider the response without cutting into precious ice time. If you still want face-to-face time to discuss an issue you can request to schedule a meeting at a time that works for both of you.

Are there other pro shops near you? This one does not exactly sound like it has staff trained in proper fitting for figure skaters.

[chowskates]

The reason I asked about the blade upgrade was because on the website Kinzies closet, it shows that same boot with an available upgrade to an Eclipse Crescent. 

This year Riedell is offering the Eclipse Crescent on models 229, 255 and 910. I didn't realise they put it on the 133 too, but as others said, for FS1 the Onyx is sufficient.

[Tennisany1]

If you really want another boot to look at, see if you can find Jackson Freestyles to try on. That's a good boot for the level.   

I would be very careful with the Jackson Freestyles. I know they get recommended a lot for early skaters, but IMHO they are very stiff for that level. Jackson does make some less stiff boots, but unless the child is fairly heavy, I think the Freestyles will be too stiff. We have a child at our rink in these boots who is 12 and working up to double loop. She has had no end of trouble because of the stiffness.

[Skittl1321]

Most of the kids get Jackson Freestyles in Basic 8 and keep them through early doubles around here.

Except with one coach Edea has become very popular so I think a lot of kids are way overbooted- Ice Fly working on axel and double toe.

[sarahspins]

Different skaters have different needs, based not only on skill level but also "how" they skate.  There may be skaters doing doubles who are overbooted in Freestyles, but there are plenty who are not, and plenty of skaters doing just fine in lower freestyle levels.

[sampaguita]

I think that knee bend/skating level affects under/overbooting more than jump level. I have seen girls working on axels who don't have good skating skills.

[Sk8tmum]

I think that knee bend/skating level affects under/overbooting more than jump level. I have seen girls working on axels who don't have good skating skills.

There is no magic formula to deciding what boot is right for what skater - it is experience, coaching, skater peculiarities. My DD is NOT overbooted in the Riedell 1500s, although she does not land doubles, as she has the need for a boot of that strength to accomodate the strength she has in her actual skating and her spins, edges, stroking etc.  They work very well for her, and she broke them in within 3 weeks of skating.  An 875 lasted us for 1-1/2 years of solid skating; they broke in properly, meaning that they were correctly fitted. But, I'm sure that there are many people who would say "no doubles? What on earth is she doing in a 1500? They're rated for triple jumps!"  It was our fitter's recommendation, based on years of fitting her skates and with discussions with her and her coach.

Also, different skaters need different strengths of boots, even skaters of the same height, weight and skating level; my other kid (who has a different coach) lands 2A and triples in a boot that is actually not nearly as stiff as the 1500s, yet, is a bigger, heavier and far more powerful skater with far more advanced skating skills, as, having been consistently underbooted for years, the softer boots work ... and no, they don't break down quickly, as the jump technique is such as that there is minimal strain on the boots on landing. Interestingly, Patrick Chan does not lace his boots tightly at all on the ankle; he keeps them loose so he can "feel" the ice on his landings .... we could look at that as a "soft" boot.

You cannot say "a boot is right for" a skater at "XYZ level" as every skater varies; leg length, height, weight, muscle strength, jump style, skating style and mechanics, etc. However, especially for beginning skaters who don't have the years of experience to know that they like over/under/stiff/soft etc etc etc, our fitter has a simple test:  Put the boots on. Lace them up snugly and completely.  IF the skater cannot bend the boots so the knee goes beyond the toe, they are too stiff.  Bend of the boots is always "forward" not side to side, thus, the measure is if they can be bent "forward".

[hopskipjump]

It can also be a communication issue for a mismatch of boot and level.  Parents go into the skate shop and are asked what level their skater skates at and they will say I don't know, she is doing axel.  Later it comes out that they are in a pre-axel group class and are probably at least a year and a half from a clean axel. That is why it's a good idea for a coach to give an opinion on the purchase.

[Tennisany1]

There is no magic formula to deciding what boot is right for what skater - ...our fitter has a simple test:  Put the boots on. Lace them up snugly and completely.  IF the skater cannot bend the boots so the knee goes beyond the toe, they are too stiff.  Bend of the boots is always "forward" not side to side, thus, the measure is if they can be bent "forward".

Exactly! That was my point. Just because a particular boot is rated by the manufacturer for a level, doesn't mean it will automatically work. The other problem is that skaters and coaches often recommend the brand of boots they have. This can cause real problems if the skater looking for a recommendation has significantly different feet. Asking for input on a site like this, checking out the various manufacturer's websites, talking to the coach, talking to other skating parents, and talking to a reputable fitter and then putting it all together, while a whole lot of work,  is usually the best approach. It is also important to be completely honest about what a child is working on. I always talk to my dd's coach about the plan for the year before we go for new skates. Then I can tell the fitter exactly what jumps and tests she will be doing in the next 12 months.

We have been very lucky that my dd has been in the same brand since she moved out of CanSkate. She has gradually moved up in strength, and even though she is working on a 2A, she is in a softer boot because she is very easy on them.

Our fitter uses the same test of knees over toes to assess the strength of the boot relative to the skater. The other important step is to make sure you take the old boots with you. A good fitter can get a lot of information by looking at the old boot.