Dd is excited...

[isakswings]

She's landing double loops off ice. That darn double toe makes he nuts, but the loop seems to be easier for her. She isn't landing them on the ice yet, but hopefully the more she does it off ice, the sooner she be able to land it ON the ice. She was so excited about it. We shall see what happens.

Also, I have a questions regarding choreographers. Dd's coach mentioned that we should consider working with one on a regular basis. I was always under the impression that a choreographer was used to help enhance programs and that once the programs were set, you didn't use a choreographer until you needed a new program. What else can a choreographer help with? Foot work? Over all presentation? Arms?

Thanks!

[momtovanan]

Congratulations on the double loop. My daughter's choreographer is her coach's wife. She teaches daughter the whole program but single all her jumps. Her coach will put the jumps during his lesson.

[hopskipjump]

Dd's coach does the choreography.  Actually she does the choreography and later with her other coach they make adjustments for new skills mastered during the season so it's always a work in progress.  She already takes an ice class that works on artistic stuff and dance for movement.  I don't know of anyone (senior on down) who works with a choreographer but it is much common at some other rinks we visit.

[isakswings]

Dds coach choreographs her programs too. We have had an outside choreographer work with dd before but it was  one program. After that, her coach worked with her. Dd could work on presentation more, so I don't know if that is reason or not. I may have misunderstood too. I am going to ask for clarification tomorrow.

[hopskipjump]

If dd ever skates IJS, I don't know how much time her coach would want to devote to learning about getting points (if she doesn't already know).  I don't even know how many high level skaters she coaches - or lower level - we pretty much just know her at lessons and the kids before and after dd's lessons.  But the IJS thing sounds very technical so a choreographer with a technical specialty would make a lot of sense.  Imho, part of being a good coach is suggesting getting outside help if they think your skater needs it - choreography, jumps, MITF - whatever.  I'd much rather be referred than to have them and the skater struggling.

[Sk8tmum]

A choreo can be used throughout the process. A couple of reasons. First, a program can - devolve - as the skater forgets intricacies, thus, having the choreo check to see if the existent program is the same as the choreo'd one is useful. Second, as a skater improves (speed, new elements, able to do different transitions) - the program can be altered. Third, based on feedback from comps, particularly under points, the choreographer can adjust the program to reflect the judge's feedback and work to maximize points.

It also lets the coach do what the coach is paid to do - coach - same way that you can use spin specialists, transition/footwork specialists, etc. Once skaters get past the intro level, it's not uncommon; I'm more happy to hear that a coach recognizes that s/he can't do everything, and wants to use someone with expertise.

Plus, choreos tend to be better skilled at cutting/choosing music, which helps avoid inappropriate choices or poor music editing.   

[isakswings]

Thanks! My daughter is barely out of pre preliminary and has yet to compete her freeskate in preliminary. We are still 2 levels away from IJS. I wonder if dds coach wants her to start working on intricate details now so if/when she moves to juv she is better prepared? I dunno. I will ask her tomorrow. ;-)

[Tennisany1]

In my experience lots of kids get a double loop before a double toe. The toe is all about timing and seems to be very sensitive to growth as well. My dd was landing up to double flip long before the double toe. In fact she could land axel/double loop before she had a consistent double toe!

[Laneybug7]

Ahh yes the double toe.  I just started working on it last month and find it to be very hit or miss.  The entry has to be very percise, timing has to be right, etc.  I found it strange that on the sk8stuff website, that they rank 2toe as one of the easiest jumps, well before a single lutz and axel.  I dont find it hard persay, but it's just very tempermental.  I havent tried a 2loop yet..but good for your dd!!

[dak_rbb]

What else can a choreographer help with? Foot work? Over all presentation? Arms?

Any of the above and maybe more depending on the choreographer.  So far my DD's coach has choreographed all her programs as well. However, the last few years, she has also taken several on-ice lessons with her dance teacher after the program was developed.  Though not a skater, the dance teacher was able to work with her arms, posture, and general presentation.  Lots of small changes which made a huge difference and allowed DD's coach to return her focus to the jumps and spins.  DD could have benefited from weekly lessons, but there is a limit to our finances. 

DD also had her double loop before double toe.  Coach took a lot of time with the double toe.  Two years later, both jumps are consistent, but the double loop is still the stronger jump.

[Sk8tmum]

2T turns into T-axel too easily; which is very hard to break.  Some kids get edge jumps easier than pick jumps.  My kids 3T is better than the 2L !!! and the 2L is the "oh lord, please land it" jump in every program.

[twokidsskatemom]

2T turns into T-axel too easily; which is very hard to break.  Some kids get edge jumps easier than pick jumps.  My kids 3T is better than the 2L !!! and the 2L is the "oh lord, please land it" jump in every program.

Amen to that.DD had a terrible t axle which has taken a few years to get rid of.Now wonderful d/l  d/t combo.But really years working on it!

[isakswings]

2T turns into T-axel too easily; which is very hard to break.  Some kids get edge jumps easier than pick jumps.  My kids 3T is better than the 2L !!! and the 2L is the "oh lord, please land it" jump in every program.

Maybe the 2toe can wait a bit then! LOL. Dd's blasted axel is finally consistent! It's still wierd somestimes but she is landing it almost every time she jumps it now. She doesn't need a toe axel. Right now, I want a consistent 2 sal and somewhat consistent 2 loop! LOL.  In due time... hopefully the sal soon. She has the rotations and is actually quite fast. She just needs to get her check out and landing to work with her jumps!! That's truly what is hurting her now.

[isakswings]

I talked to dd's coach re: choreographer. It is pretty much all of the reasons I mentioned. AND as some of you have mentioned, having another coach with with dd on those things makes it so her primary coach can turn her attention to other things. So, now I get to re-work my finances to see what we can afford.

Thanks!

[Tennisany1]

2T turns into T-axel too easily; which is very hard to break.  Some kids get edge jumps easier than pick jumps.  My kids 3T is better than the 2L !!! and the 2L is the "oh lord, please land it" jump in every program.

Exactly! That is why it is important not to get too hung up on what order the jumps are learned. Some kids actually get a double salchow or double toe before they get a consistent axel. If you make them wait until the axel is consistent they could be waiting a long time and get very frustrated! My dd's coach is sure dd will have a 2A and a 3Sal long before she has a 2Lz that isn't a 2Flutz. I would say that she is not a toe jumper, except that her single flip and now double flip are fabulous .... very strange sport is figure skating.

[isakswings]

I figure... it really doesn't matter if she gets her loop before her toe. The toe will come in due time. We'll just be happy if she gets at least one double consistent before competition in June.

One of the girls dd skates with may be one of those skaters who gets a consistent double before getting a consistent axel. She can land the axel, but tends to 2 foot her landing.

I was proud of myself during this last competition... I didn't grit my teeth when it was time for dd to jump her axel. I am sure I will grit my teeth when her double has to be jumped in June!

[Tennisany1]

...I was proud of myself during this last competition... I didn't grit my teeth when it was time for dd to jump her axel. I am sure I will grit my teeth when her double has to be jumped in June!

But isn't gritting your teeth just part of motherhood? 

I always say I will just relax when dd is competing, but I find if very difficult to do. I'm not really worried about the result. She has never been a threat to get on the podium but I just want her to be happy with her skate. I guess it is that she works so hard and it seems there are so few rewards other than the satisfaction of learning something new. That is, of course, great .... but a chance to be one of those kids with a medal would be nice too.

[isakswings]

But isn't gritting your teeth just part of motherhood? 

I always say I will just relax when dd is competing, but I find if very difficult to do. I'm not really worried about the result. She has never been a threat to get on the podium but I just want her to be happy with her skate. I guess it is that she works so hard and it seems there are so few rewards other than the satisfaction of learning something new. That is, of course, great .... but a chance to be one of those kids with a medal would be nice too.

I hear you there! My daughter has placed, but she's also been the kid who hasn't many times. I am grateful she is a good sport and really competes because she enjoys competing and not for a medal or any kind of glory. Her competition in June will be interesting. It'll be her first time competing her freeskate at this level and the first time she will have to land a double in compeition. We never go into a competition thinking she will absolutely take 1st or even last. We go into it just hoping she comes off happy and pleased with herself(much like you!) I hope your daughter has the chance to be on the podium someday!