IJS Component Scores

jumpingbeansmom · March 17, 2011, 11:42:52 AM

Do you think judges lower component scores when skaters fall? Or do you think they are looking at skating skills etc. outside of falls?

fsk8r · March 17, 2011, 07:20:47 PM

PCS scores will be affected by a fall as it will interrupt the flow of the program. You have to remember it's broken into 5 sections including choreography and interpretation which will both be impacted by a fall even if you can argue the skating skills aren't.
However, the -1 deduction for a fall is meant to be the only impact of it, and if the skater pops straight back up, the impact on PCS should be very small.

jumpingbeansmom · March 18, 2011, 09:38:12 AM

Quote from: fsk8r on March 17, 2011, 07:20:47 PM
PCS scores will be affected by a fall as it will interrupt the flow of the program. You have to remember it's broken into 5 sections including choreography and interpretation which will both be impacted by a fall even if you can argue the skating skills aren't.
However, the -1 deduction for a fall is meant to be the only impact of it, and if the skater pops straight back up, the impact on PCS should be very small.

That makes sense. My dd's component scores have risen SO much since regionals in the fall, AND she had 2 falls in her program for Juv and one for Intermediate Short this past weekend...I am trying to figure out if she might have even gotten higher ones without the falls. She did do a pretty good job of just moving through it without messing up the flow of the programs though. I am pleased to see her component scores going up anyway.

fsk8r · March 18, 2011, 10:18:50 PM

I think that if even with falls things are going up then you can see progress. The claim these marks are meant to be objective but there's still subjectivity in it and they vary from competition to competition depending on the judging panel (and for TES the tech specialists). If you're seeing her getting better GOE on elements which she's repeating from competition to competition and general improvement in PCS and even getting the higher level step sequences, you are watching the improvement.
I pay more attention to IJS scores for synchro and have noticed that the PCS is the one thing which differentiates the best teams from the worst. They can all manage to get the TES of a similar range, but you can have a wide variation in PCS. Ultimately it's the PCS which wins synchro competitions. I suspect the same is true for free competitions (or at least at my level of adult bronze - but that's a whole other story).

jumpingbeansmom · March 19, 2011, 07:38:30 AM

Quote from: fsk8r on March 18, 2011, 10:18:50 PM
I think that if even with falls things are going up then you can see progress. The claim these marks are meant to be objective but there's still subjectivity in it and they vary from competition to competition depending on the judging panel (and for TES the tech specialists). If you're seeing her getting better GOE on elements which she's repeating from competition to competition and general improvement in PCS and even getting the higher level step sequences, you are watching the improvement.

That is what I was thinking, if she is getting higher PCS scores with 1-2 falls (she did for both Intermediate Long and Juvenile-- same competition but two different judging panels) then she was for 'clean' skates last year (in the fall), then there is significant improvement happening. And yes, her GOEs are better as well, both jumps and spins...she even got several +1 in both programs. It is nice to see her hard work paying off.

Schmeck · March 19, 2011, 08:28:19 AM

Quote from: fsk8r on March 18, 2011, 10:18:50 PM
I think that if even with falls things are going up then you can see progress. The claim these marks are meant to be objective but there's still subjectivity in it and they vary from competition to competition depending on the judging panel (and for TES the tech specialists). If you're seeing her getting better GOE on elements which she's repeating from competition to competition and general improvement in PCS and even getting the higher level step sequences, you are watching the improvement.
I pay more attention to IJS scores for synchro and have noticed that the PCS is the one thing which differentiates the best teams from the worst. They can all manage to get the TES of a similar range, but you can have a wide variation in PCS. Ultimately it's the PCS which wins synchro competitions. I suspect the same is true for free competitions (or at least at my level of adult bronze - but that's a whole other story).

Synchro is still very political, and the PCS is used to place teams accordingly. Of course, this is just my opinion, but it's an opinion I've formed after following synchro for many years. I've seen a lot, and heard a lot, and I'm a bit discouraged by a lot of it.

One also has to remember that the PCS vary from competition to competition based on the standard set at each comp. It is still a subjective score, although there are many guidelines the judges are supposed to use to come up with that very specific number.

jumpingbeansmom · March 19, 2011, 08:50:29 AM

I agree with Schmeck on synchro, I have seen it happen...a team that really doesn't skate well at sectionals is sent to nationals anyway based on who they are.

fsk8r · March 19, 2011, 01:14:29 PM

Quote from: jumpingbeansmom on March 19, 2011, 08:50:29 AM
I agree with Schmeck on synchro, I have seen it happen...a team that really doesn't skate well at sectionals is sent to nationals anyway based on who they are.

Possibly that's what's happening in the US, but I was referring to the international competitions as that's what I end up folllowing in Europe as we don't have many local ones and the British championships is non-qualifying.

But I agree with Schmeck that the PCS is just a new variant on placing teams/skaters. I think it's happening in all disciplines at least at the lower levels.

jumpingbeansmom · March 19, 2011, 04:05:23 PM

Quote from: fsk8r on March 19, 2011, 01:14:29 PM
Possibly that's what's happening in the US, but I was referring to the international competitions as that's what I end up folllowing in Europe as we don't have many local ones and the British championships is non-qualifying.

But I agree with Schmeck that the PCS is just a new variant on placing teams/skaters. I think it's happening in all disciplines at least at the lower levels.

I can only opine on the US...

Schmeck · March 21, 2011, 07:08:54 AM

Back before IJS, I once 'judged' a synchro competition (intermediate level) - I went online, compared scores from different regionals, looked back at past competitions, etc. As I sat in the stands as a spectator, I watched the girls skate, taking notes. Then I used all the info I had gathered, and placed the teams in two ways - one according to how I thought they skated, and then one based also on past performances and reputation. Then I looked at the posted scores. My independent list was off by 7-8 places. My list that added in past placements and reputation was off by 2.

I've yet to have the time to do that with PCS scores this year, maybe next - I really want to see how much is based on rep, and how much is based on skill.

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IJS Component Scores