How hard is it to rebuild boots?

[Query]

In

  http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=8744.msg104963#msg104963

Supersharp showed how she repaired boots in which the eyelets had been cut by the sawing action of the lace that occurred from "Russian lacing", using a needle and thread.


I always assumed repairing and rebuilding boots required a very heavy duty sewing machine.

Now you've got me wondering if I could rebuild my old Klingbeil boots with a needle and thread. Klingbeil is out of business now. I once took them to a shoe cobbler, and he said he didn't have a tough enough machine for skates. I took them to a custom saddle and jockey riding boot shop in Baltimore. The worker admired the workmanship, and was somewhat familiar with the Klingbeils' work, but said she would have to charge about twice the original cost to rebuild them. (Of course, at the time, Klingbeil only charged about $650 for new custom skates, I think. Everyone else now charges a lot more.) I don't know anyone anywhere near D.C. who rebuilds skates.


They only have minor creases, below the ankles. What has basically happened is that the material has become less stiff over time, and no longer provides sufficient ankle height lateral support to do anything hard - not that I have ever done much hard. But I'm mostly afraid to even try to do even the tiny half rotation jumps I learned.

They are also scuffed. The pictures makes it look worse than it is - the flash was bright to make the black skates visible. Anyway, I don't care about that.

They have two layers of leather, sewed together. My impression is that there is a stiffening element between them, that needs to be replaced.

How difficult are boots to rebuild? Would I just cut the current threads, insert the stiffener, and resew in the same holes?

What material and thickness do people use to stiffen boots? These were "soft ice dance" boots, though I'm not a good or strong enough skater to have broken them in the normal way. (After 6 years and a few thousand hours on the ice, I finally did many repeated heat moldings to break them in. Then skated for many more years and thousands of hours.)

And what type/diameter thread?

Any other guidance?


My other cheap alternative would be to use again the high level freestyle boots I got essentially for free (long story). The were Graf Edmonton Special boots (nominally designed for quads), sized 1.5 sizes too large, that I cut thick insoles for to make them fit, and that pretty much worked. I've repaired the heels that separated when I didn't use long enough blade mounting screws. But, between being high level, and too large, they are quite heavy and clumsy for me (and I had to use a different technique, so my feet don't come too close together, because they are large.)

I really should get new full custom boots. These never fit right because the fitter (who didn't work for Klingbeil) messed up. But they cost so much, even more if I travel to a factory fitter twice, which I would do. And I'm about 65, and too old and unfit to skate well now anyway.

Also - do you know anyone within a day's drive of Washington, DC who rebuilds skates?

[supersharp]

Have you checked with Avanta?  I think they have a bunch of Klingbeil workers there.  The stitching patterns are very similar to what Klingbeil used. 

You are probably correct that the boots need to be split and the stiffener needs to be replaced, probably with something that is less stiff than what you started with but more stiff than you have now.

[Query]

I will call Avanta.

Have you ever stiffened or rebuilt boots? Do you know what to use and where to get it?

[supersharp]

No, I have only repaired. damage from incorrect lacing and damage from puppy chewing. When my boots need to be re-stiffened, I send them back to Harlick.

I am planning to replace the tongue lining  on my older boots soon, though. Harlick is very busy and it should be pretty simple - this way, I don't have to send the boots back and forth to California. They sent me the new lining material cut to fit my old tongues.

[Query]

No, I have only repaired. damage from incorrect lacing and damage from puppy chewing.

A message from your friendly puppy: Please leave your boots where I can help you break them in.

It's adorable that your puppy loved your boots as much as you do.

[supersharp]

Fortunately for me, they were not my boots and it was not my puppy.  Both belong to my coach.  For your entertainment:

See attached photos--the top corner of one of these dance boots was chewed up and part of the collar was chewed off where the lining folds over and gets hidden by the upper.  The second photo shows what the unchewed side of the boot looks like.  I split the seam open and cut a patch out of some goat skin...I didn't have anything close to the color of the lining but we were more interested in the repair being structural than aesthetic. 

Next I glued the patch into the opened seam and then made a patch for the foam that had been chewed so the collar would not be too floppy or have a sudden decrease in thickness (photos 3-6).  The patch was folded over and glued to the inside lining with the edge of the patch curved so it wouldn't rub against the ankle bone (Photo 7).  The chewed part of the leather was shaped and refinished with Harlick boot finish (multiple coats to re-establish a durable finish on the chewed surface--photo and then holes were punched at reasonably even intervals with a leather needle.  The original stitching line had been chewed off, so I had to create a new set of holes. 

I stitched the patch on through the new stitching holes, final product in photos 9-11. The damage happened in November 2019 and the repair looks exactly the same now as it does in these photos.  Not pretty, particularly from the inside, but it has held up well under the rigors of International level dancing.

Photos 7-11 are in the next post so I don't exceed the attachment limit.

[supersharp]

Photos 7-11 below, associated with the previous post about the puppy-chewed boot.

[Query]

I didn't mean for you to go to so much work to demonstrate what you've done. Thank-you very much!

Avanta might be able to rebuild them, and they have asked me to send pictures so they can decide whether they can.

It's a hard decision to decide on my end too. They were made around 2000 or 2001, and I've given them many thousands of hours of use. But though they were custom boots, they never fit due to a dubious fitter. I literally have ball and ring pliers re-stretching one or another part of the boots much of the time I'm not skating.

They also have heels that are much too high for my comfortable flexibility, though I had Klingbeil trim them, and I wish they had no toe spring.

I think horizontal footbeds would work best for me. If I had unlimited money, I would get several pairs of full custom boots made again, this time fit by factory fitters, with different trial footbed shapes. I would of course need completely redesigned blades to make that work, and would have to have a machinist & metallurgist attempt various custom blade shapes to match.

And it might all be an unsuccessful experiment.

But at 65, I've never gotten beyond low level ice dance moves, and half rotation jumps, and am losing rather than gaining athleticism. I admit that is only partly due to poor boot fit. Isn't worth it, and I can't afford it.

[supersharp]

It sounds like it makes more sense to start trying on a lot of different brands of boots to see if you can find a heel height and toespring that is close, and start from there.  Good luck!

[Query]

It sounds like it makes more sense to start trying on a lot of different brands of boots to see if you can find a heel height and toespring that is close, and start from there.  Good luck!

Do you know of any brands of stock figure skating boot that have fairly horizontal footbeds with little or no toe spring (i.e., upwards bend in the forefoot)?

AFAIK, the only boots that come close are hockey boots.

I suppose I could take a pair of used hockey boots (I've even got a pair, but they are a bit small, even with the insoles removed), get the blades or blade holders removed, and start from there. People might laugh at figure skating blades mounted on hockey boots, but that wouldn't bother me much. Since I probably wouldn't test or compete, I don't have to obey the rule that says to wear figure skating boots.

Or maybe some beginner level pseudo-figure skating boots? I'd have to look at them to see if any would work.

I've tried going back to semi-beginner level boots before. Specifically, almost-new Risport single leather layer boots, that someone had so quickly outgrown that they didn't show significant wear. They broke down in less than two months. Maybe I didn't do a good enough job of equalizing the pressure inside the boots. But my best guess is that beginner level boots aren't designed to take the stresses of reasonably deep edges, which include a little ankle bend inside the boot. So they might not last long.

But that might let me test out the theory that an almost flat horizontal footbed would work well for me.

So - trying out various stock boots is probably a pretty good idea. Thanks!

P.S. I'm not clear how a horizontal footbed should affect blade shape. Maybe what it really means is that I need longer blades, because the vertically-projected foot length would be longer.