Sharpening Stainless Steel blades / sharpening woes

[tstop4me]

Well, that's progress at least.

Let's hope that you can find a permanent solution soon.

Yeah, Christy, let's hope you find a permanent solution, while you still have a runner left.   Too bad you're going through all this frustration, when you just want to skate.

[Query]

As I mentioned, one of the most important characteristics of a reasonably competent skate tech is that his results are consistent. Clearly the one you were using isn't.

Did you order the Berghman sharpening tool? If you spend $5-$10 on it, it might be worth the hassle. Though it might turn out that new style Matrix blades don't have high enough runners to be used with that tool (you COULD file the tool back, but it sounds like you are too hesitant to do that sort of mod), it's still a pretty small risk compared to the costs of machine sharpening, if you include both the cost of sharpening, and of reduced blade lifetime, especially if you have to drive to use the new sharpener, in which case you should include the costs of running a vehicle.

BTW, 15 sharpening lifetime isn't really enough. That wouldn't flatten your rocker unless:
1. Your tech failed to try to maintain the proper rocker profile. In theory, they should have recorded the original profile (by tracing or photocopying it), and tried to make sure that profile was maintained.
2. They were flattening your rocker in order that you wouldn't unintentionally hit your toe pick. Done "right" (by powered sharpening machine standards, for figure blades - though of course there are no real "standards" per se), 15 sharpenings should remove about 15*.003=.045 inches - less than 1/20" - probably not enough to cause that problem, even though, in my limited experience, Ultima blades allow less room then MK and Wilson blades, before the toe pick starts to interfere too much. Even if it did, a really good tech would trim the toe pick back a little instead of altering the rocker profile. That doesn't quite produce exactly the original blade shape - because freestyle toe picks are tilted forwards, which means trimming would shift the point at which your toepick touches the ice slightly back - but it would work pretty well.

I've wondered if there shouldn't be better solutions for the "masses". Last I checked (a few years pre-covid19), USFSA had about 100,000 members, though that includes the LTS people. I'm surprised that's isn't enough for people to create s simple jigs to do this in a fairly idiot proof manner. Tools like the Berghman or Pro-Filer aren't idiot proof - which I suppose is part of the fun, like any skill.

As I mentioned, a tech doesn't have to finish under all conditions. In particular, if he uses a relatively large grit sharpening wheel (which, BTW, probably won't create as sharp an edge), it turns out, based on a test with a microscope I did with the help of an expert tech, that there is essentially no sharpening burr - though the edge is pretty rough. One COULD skate on it - though that particular tech chooses to finish even under those conditions.

Unfortunately, your new tech doesn't have a fresh blade whose rocker profile he can record. He may not know what shape that particular blade "should" take. If you want a less flat rocker, or to re-emphasize what I was taught to call the "sweet spot" where the rocker curvature changes up front, you will have to tell him that. It's a shame YOU didn't record the original profile, that you could give him - assuming you didn't.

Oh well. It is an adventure.

[Christy]

Actually I usually do trace the profile of my blades after each sharpening, but I didn't do it with this pair of blades. Not sure why I didn't, but I do have the profile of my old Elites that my proper sharpener sharpened.

[Query]

Actually I usually do trace the profile of my blades after each sharpening, but I didn't do it with this pair of blades. Not sure why I didn't, but I do have the profile of my old Elites that my proper sharpener sharpened.

Excellent! Then you can tell whether this tech has changed the rocker. And if he has, and you care, maybe give him the old profile to approximately match.

The only question about your old profiles is whether they were Matrix too. When I spoke to someone at Jackson's factory, that person said they weren't sure whether (old model) Matrix and non-Matrix blades of the same model designation had the same shape.

[Christy]

Excellent! Then you can tell whether this tech has changed the rocker. And if he has, and you care, maybe give him the old profile to approximately match.

The only question about your old profiles is whether they were Matrix too. When I spoke to someone at Jackson's factory, that person said they weren't sure whether (old model) Matrix and non-Matrix blades of the same model designation had the same shape.

They are the same blades, i.e. Matrix Elite, and comparing the profile of the current blades with that of my old pair at the fifth sharpening I'd say it's fairly close. Definitely not exactly the same, but not significantly different. I've only met the current sharpener once but sadly I have to say that I know he wouldn't be interested in trying to reprofile the blades. He operates a bit of production line and the store's main focus is hockey 

[tstop4me]

They are the same blades, i.e. Matrix Elite, and comparing the profile of the current blades with that of my old pair at the fifth sharpening I'd say it's fairly close. Definitely not exactly the same, but not significantly different. I've only met the current sharpener once but sadly I have to say that I know he wouldn't be interested in trying to reprofile the blades. He operates a bit of production line and the store's main focus is hockey 

<<Emphasis added.>>  That's probably for the best.  If you can't trust him to do a decent sharpening, why would you trust him to reprofile your blades (a much more difficult operation)?

[Query]

I've only met the current sharpener once

Eeks. I hate pro shops like that. I think of sharpening as a personalized service, that requires personal interaction to satisfy the particular skater's needs. \\

So - given the absence of a good skate tech in your area, if you were to learn how to do sharpen skates "right", maybe you could set up a little side business sharpening skates. In other threads, Bill said he has sharpened for other people.

Of course, most rinks sell a concession to just one pro shop, so soliciting business among rink customers might be a no no. 

[Christy]

Eeks. I hate pro shops like that. I think of sharpening as a personalized service, that requires personal interaction to satisfy the particular skater's needs. \\

So - given the absence of a good skate tech in your area, if you were to learn how to do sharpen skates "right", maybe you could set up a little side business sharpening skates. In other threads, Bill said he has sharpened for other people.

Of course, most rinks sell a concession to just one pro shop, so soliciting business among rink customers might be a no no. 

Not ideal, but the bad sharpener was supposed to be offering a personalized service, and that was a total disaster, so if the pro shop guy can do something reasonable I can overlook his location!