Stretching not working?

[sampaguita]

I've had a stretching routine for a few months now which I do after strength training, and I've seen no improvement. Granted, I'm really tight, and have lived a sedentary life until sometime in November last year. However, I was expecting that at least I'd see some progress, but my muscles are just as tight as they were before.

I guess my question is, how long should I expect results for stretching if I'm someone who's really, really tight? Is there anything else better than stretching to get better flexibility?

Btw, I stretch every muscle for at least 30 seconds at the end of my workout. My most problematic areas are hamstrings, calves, hip flexors, lower back, trapezius.

[nicklaszlo]

How frequently?

Has an expert observed your stretching?

[icedancer]

I read an article in our local paper written by a physical therapist who said that stretches should be held for 10-15 minutes!  That is quite a long time I think.

I stretch every morning before I get up - I try to hold each stretch for at least 5 minutes - been doing this since last November and it really really has been helpful!

[4711]

stretching was a lesser fad back in the 80s, following the Airobics craze...
And since then much has changed in terms of knowledge...

The old old idea was to bounce the stretch, which has long since been debunked and replaced by static stretches, to be held 15 seconds or so, repeated at least 3 times. When i was in class (martial arts) we never had time to go longer than 10 seconds, time was precious! And yet, going 3 times a week the flexibility improved. (but then again, I was 34 and naturally flexible)

Then the program changed to add a set of dynamic stretches to the workout routine: You'd do the same moves, but instead of holding the stretch you'd move on to the next. So if you sat on the floor with spread legs, you'd lean to your right leg, raise up, reach down the middle, then to the left leg, without topping to hold it at the stretch point. Then you'd repeat that two more times. Sometime later in class the traditional stretch would be done with holding.

However, we also had various other exercises that improved flexibility over time. One was called 'focus kicks' where we held on to the wall or door jam and performed sets of 10 or 15 of our various kicks in slow speed, concentrating on proper for, always reaching for the limit of flexibility. Burn, baby, burn! I am not sure how you can translate that into skating, as it, too , is a dynamic process.

I have always been a huge fan of ballet exercises: it's low impact and - come to think of it - dynamic in most parts.
I am not talking about dancing, but the barre exercises, which - if done correctly - can leave you drenched in sweat in 15 minutes without running or bouncing.

But to tell you the truth: a few month is really too early to expect huge changes in flexibility, especially if your muscles, tendons and ligaments are naturally tight. Mother nature might have dealt you a bum deck there (but it does have it's advantages, too, nice protection from joint dislocation) and you just have to work harder at it. Of course, coming from a sedentary lifestyle has you at a worse starting point than a previously active person.

Just keep working on it! Eventually you will realize that, dangit, that leg really does swing up higher than it used to. But chances are that you won't realize it much, since it's a gradual process!

[irenar5]

I have done a lot of research on stretching and here is the jist of my findings:

1. Stretches should NEVER be done cold, but only after a 5-10 min cardio warmup
2. Hold each stretch for 30sec- 1min for 3 reps 
3. To increase range you can try PNF stretching- you have to read up on that.
4. Stretches should be done DAILY.
5. Some days you are a lot less flexible.
6. Gains are small.

What is equally as important to know is our muscles have a predetermined length for our body, so it most likely be impossible to be as flexible as someone else.  You have to go by objective measurements for you (like how far you can stretch past your toes, etc).

[amy1984]

Stretching can be very useful but in order to see results (and not hurt yourself!), you really need to be doing it properly.   

If you haven't had a program set up for you, I'd suggest it.  If you don't want to get a trainer, try a yoga class to get an idea of what works for you while getting instruction from a professional.  Most of my stretching exercises have been taken from yoga.

I'm sure there have been results from your stretching.  It's just hard to guage something that happens slowly and might be just a slight improvement.  It can take a significant amount of time to see significant results

Good luck.

[sampaguita]

Thanks everyone! Most of my stretches are the basic ones that you can pretty much get anywhere. Some where obtained from yoga. I actually did Ashtanga yoga for some time before -- it made my back more flexible in 2 months doing it 2-3x a week, but it did nothing for my hamstrings. Unfortunately, it also ruined my spine after a bad bridge pose, so I haven't been able to do it again.

Interestingly, my gym trainers didn't care much for stretching. One even told me that after a cool-down at the bike, I didn't need to stretch (?!), so I just made my own stretch routine.

But to tell you the truth: a few month is really too early to expect huge changes in flexibility, especially if your muscles, tendons and ligaments are naturally tight. Mother nature might have dealt you a bum deck there (but it does have it's advantages, too, nice protection from joint dislocation) and you just have to work harder at it. Of course, coming from a sedentary lifestyle has you at a worse starting point than a previously active person.

Haha, this made me laugh! Never been flexible, but I don't have "normal" flexibility. Not expecting a Biellmann to happen any time in the future, but I hope I'll be able to do a passable arabesque. I guess I'll just have to keep stretching then.

3. To increase range you can try PNF stretching- you have to read up on that.

Yup, I've read on that. I try to do that with my hamstrings, but for the other parts of the body, I find it hard to do solo  PNF. Any tips? Thanks!

[irenar5]

What are your goals with stretching?

When I started stretching 2.5 years ago, my goals were:

1. Inside spreadeagle- however small.
2. Higher spiral (I wanted 135 degrees :-)
3. Being able to do a layback spin
4. Being able to do a split- that was just for fun:-)

After 2.5 years of everyday 40 min stretch routine I have met only the layback goal.  I am not even sure if it was due to stretching or just practicing on the ice. 

I trained for spirals with weights on an uneven surface, in addition to various stretches. My strength is there, but not the 135 degree height.  It is definitely higher than when I started, but not significantly.  My hamstrings are very flexible, I can comfortably place both palms on the floor with straight legs- it does not translate to a high spiral.

Splits... I can get probably within 3 inches of the floor on a good day, but I don't think I will ever be able to actually sit into it.

I gave up on the idea of a spreadeagle- my hips are just not built for that kind of turn out, has nothing to do with the muscles, it is just the bony socket structure.

So, now I just do it because I think stretching helps with injury prevention.

[sampaguita]

My hamstrings are very tight for skating. They're the ones that hurt first when I attempt to do a 90deg spiral. The knees have to bend if I don't want pain. But you can't have bent knees....

I just want normal flexibility -- that's my goal for now. When I get there, I want to set the goal higher, but that's what I want for now. Coincidentally, this corresponds with having a 90 deg spiral + flexible hip flexors.

[rsk8d]

Interestingly, my gym trainers didn't care much for stretching. One even told me that after a cool-down at the bike, I didn't need to stretch (?!), so I just made my own stretch routine.

Stay away from those trainers!

I have done a lot of research on stretching and here is the jist of my findings:

1. Stretches should NEVER be done cold, but only after a 5-10 min cardio warmup
2. Hold each stretch for 30sec- 1min for 3 reps 
3. To increase range you can try PNF stretching- you have to read up on that.
4. Stretches should be done DAILY.
5. Some days you are a lot less flexible.
6. Gains are small.

What is equally as important to know is our muscles have a predetermined length for our body, so it most likely be impossible to be as flexible as someone else.  You have to go by objective measurements for you (like how far you can stretch past your toes, etc).

Perfectly said! Sampaguita follow this advice!

[davincisop]

If it makes you feel any better, it took me two years of stretching to get the turnout for an outside spread eagle. I'm still working to stretch my spiral back to where it was before my hip injury.

Hang in there and keep goin!

[Query]

Some of us just don't have the right biochemistry to stretch well. For the most part, any stretching I do is undone within a day or two. I've been trying for longer than most of you are alive.

General guidelines tend to err on the side of caution. Because some people overstretch ligaments when they try to stretch their muscles more than 15 or 30 seconds, or whatever, experts recommend everyone keep stretch times down. As best I understand it, because some people's ligaments return to length very slowly (read: years, decades, maybe never), long stretches are a no no for them. They can easily get into a state where their joints dislocate or sublux, doing lots of damage.

[BTW, successful dancers and skaters often ignore all recommendations, and stretch multiple times / day, for long periods. Some pay for it in the end with life-long joint problems, but it's what they had to do to succeed.]

It is almost impossible for me to do a muscle stretch that stretches ligaments, or to be in danger of dislocating or subluxing anything, because my muscles are too short to allow me to dangerously overstretch ligaments.

I now stretch for many minutes at a time, after a thorough warm-up - sometimes after soaking in a 102 - 103 deg F whirlpool bath. For hypermobile folks, that's dangerous. Cautious experts advise a thorough physiological (exercise-based) warm-up of the muscles to be stretched, because that selectively warms up those muscles more than the ligaments or other muscles, which makes them more ready to stretch. A general physiological warm-up also lubricates all the joints, and oxygenates tissue, reducing wear and tear. The idea is great, but alone, it doesn't work for me.

You need to customize what you do to your body. A yoga instructor who is teaching a large class may not have time in the class to help you do that.

A good sports physical therapist (sports PT) / certified athletic trainer (ATC) helped me figure out what I need. He told me my entire injury history is consistent with short muscles, and with patterns of muscle use which underused the shortest muscles, and gave me some exercises specific to my body. He helped me understand that with my hypomobile body, I can ignore the recommendations of cautious experts worried about the problems suffered by hypermobile athletes. Unfortunately, medical experts charge real money.

One thing that may help: Make sure it really is your hamstrings that limit your range of motion. Feel the tension in your muscles to determine which muscles (if it is muscles) limit your range of motion. It may turn out to be your gluts, psoas, obliques, hip flexors, etc. If you think it may be deep muscles (not next to the skin - which muscles you usually can't feel), you can feel them if you work them hard enough to make them sore.

Good luck. Personally, I want a stretch pill. Or a vending machine that supplies a body with customized parameters.

[Doubletoe]

I find that it makes a big difference if I first stretch my calves and lower back before doing hamstring stretches, since tightness in either of those places can make it hard to stretch the hamstrings.

When I was working to increase my hamstring flexibility, I remember doing several repetitions of several different hamstring stretches each day (holding each for at least 30 seconds), including these three, in this order:
http://www.fitsugar.com/5-Easy-Hamstring-Stretches-1983373?image_nid=20673116&slide=4
http://www.augustaback.com/assets/exercise_images/strength_hamstring.jpg
http://www.fitsugar.com/5-Easy-Hamstring-Stretches-1983373?image_nid=20673113&slide=5

Of course the very best advice is to go to a physical therapist (most insurance plans will cover it), since a P.T. can figure out exactly what the issue is, give you the right stretches and show you how to do them correctly.

[Landing~Lutzes]

Here is my experience with stretching...after leaving the ballet world, I lost a lot of the flexibility I had worked very hard for (I am not naturally flexible by ANY means, and it was always an uphill battle for me.) My body has changed a lot since those days, and when I got back into training for flexibility gain, I definitely felt it. It has become much harder for me to see results. I've found that flexiblity training requires some trial, error, and most importantly - patience. It may be a year or two before you see big changes. But the key is to stay persistent and don't give up! Learn how far you can push yourself, but don't push too far (this is so easy to do with stretching.) Stay in positions that you feel a good stretch, but not pain, and can hold for respective intervals. I cannot stress enough to keep at it, I promise you will see results if you stick to it! :-)

[4711]

I found this on another forum, had not had the chance to watch it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7qYYhkfu_vc


(I just walked through the door, should edit and sort 1500 pictures I took this week - and had other people take when they borrowwed my camera...)

[iomoon]

I feel as if stretching is best after a high-impact cardio workout. I hold the stretches for 30-45 seconds and do them twice.

Yeah... I didn't think I was that flexible either. (high school flexibility assessments were laughable). However, after 1 1/2 years, a chiropractor said my flexibility was very good. I can reach about 3 inches past my toes now. Be patient. You can do it if you keep practicing (safely!).

[supra]

People tell me I have good flexibility. I think alot is from doing full squats, personally. Besides that I pretty much hold my hamstring and hip stretches done on the rails for like 2-3 minutes each. I'm almost at the level of the girls who are way better than me at the rink, as in if I try hard/on a good day, my head is on my knee when stretching my hamstring on the rails. Sometimes also to change it up I also put a barbell on the squat rack and stretch at about eye or shoulder level or so but don't really focus on bending my torso to stretch it, just use more height. I probably only stretch like this 2x a week or less usually, unless I go through a period where I cut back on lifting and then I'll do it more often. I usually don't stretch before skating. I do notice when I do I have a better session, but lazy/disorganized here.

Right now I wanna get into a gymnastics bridge. Those are tough. Maybe also a full side split, or maybe a hamstring one, too. The side split feels easier, maybe due to having relatively wide hips. There's a woman in her 50s or 60s at my rink who can get into the hamstring split. Currently splitting off 3 aerobics stepper plates for a minute or two at a time. Also I'm trying to get more ankle flexibility, as I rock off my toes a bit too much when squatting down. I don't know if it'll help a lot skating as you're locked into a boot sorta anyway, but I'll see. I wanna get into that nice "third world squat" position. http://www.educationexperts.net/anna/china5.gif

I don't know what to say really about it, considering I have decent enough "natural" flexibility (ie, sit and reach and the situps was the only thing I passed in high school fitness tests when I was severely out of shape and the most exercise I did was walking.)

[Query]

Supra:

I think I must be one of the least flexible people in the universe, but that "third world squat" position I can do. Partly because I took classes in or did Yoga for a really long time. Since I couldn't do a lot of the stretches, like anything involving a straight-leg forward bend, I concentrated on those few I could do, with bent knees. That may have meant I was stretching ligaments instead of muscles.

If your goal is to stretch the lower body muscles, really deep squats may not be the best way. It makes certain positions harder, like "shoot the duck" and "sit spin", because you can go down too low, and you have to use muscle strength to prevent your rear end from touching or almost touching the ice, which I guess isn't considered an attractive position.

I'm not all that clear on whether ligament stretches are as dangerous for people like me with very limited flexibility as for those with extreme flexibility, since to a large extant our muscles stabilize the joints instead of our ligaments. But you say you are very flexible - the type of person who is most frequently warned away from ligament stretches, which could destabilize your joints.

I'm not an expert on this. Maybe should ask someone with the right medical training (sports PT, ATC...) whether ligament stretches like extreme squats are a good idea for you?

[supra]

I'm not really sure about the "safety" of it all. I figure no matter what I do it's probably safer than sitting at home. Probably a bit reckless logic, but hey. I just figure if I need more flexibility I gotta get it somehow.

I feel like stretching is more just an accessory, if that makes sense? It's only there to help you get into whatever positions you want. It can't get you into those positions, though. You eventually just have to spend a ton of time just in those positions or close variations of them.

Anyway, I feel tight right now I think because I switched from doing back and front squats to just trying to do pistol squats and plyos and that's it. Charlie Francis, Ben Johnson's (sprinter) coach, he said he'd keep all the exercises he did basically the same, because if you constantly varied your training, you'd get tight. I think he was on to something. BUT at the same time, if you do that you get pattern overload and can get injured easier. Guess you can't win.

As far as shoot the ducks, that's interesting. I've never been able to do them. However my problem before was I'd drive off my toes like crazy. Now it's less of a problem but I still can't really do them. Maybe it's bodyweight, some people say most bodyweight gymnastic style skills are really really hard to do for people in the 180+ lb range like I am (well actually I'm high 170s now...) Like most of my 130lb friends that don't work out can do pistol squats off ice, it sucks. Oh well, I figure if I try a thousand more times it may come somehow. I'm tempted to look like a huge idiot and bring my boots to the gym and try doing the pistol squats in my skates with guards on. Yeah...

[Landing~Lutzes]

One thing to keep in mind about stretching is how important it is to know your limits, especially for those of you who are tight or stiff. Muscles have stretch receptors on them that act like brakes on a car - these muscle spindles activate when you've stretched too far and send messages to your brain to contract the muscle to keep you from going past a certain point. The key is to safely override these receptors and gradually push yourself to overcome limitations. When you do your stretching regimine, gradually increase the length that the muscle us stretched - for example, in a basic sit and reach, stretch until you can't stretch any further and hold that positions for a minimum of 20 seconds. After this time you should feel a release - these are the receptors deactivating. At this pointe, you can stretch a little further until you feel the muscle spindles kick in. Hold for a minute, and then relax. Slow and steady wins the race! :-)

What stretches are you not seeing improvement in? If you are aiming for specific poses, you may not reach these poses until you stretch other muscles involved. Take for example, the splits - it's not just the hamstrings involved, you have to have flexibility in your hip flexors, quads, and calves, in addition to your hamstrings.

[HannahLouise]

I had the same problem for a while as I wasn't noticing an improvement with my spirals (really want a Sasha Cohen spiral), but, warming up first for at least ten minutes really helped me to  start improving it again and it's not far off now!

Happy skating