Anything Further On the Jackson Debut? Comparisons with Freestyle?

[Sibelius]

Hi all,

Does anyone have any further information on the Debut?  My little skater had a boot check aaaaaaand she grew.  We are trying to find the opportunity for stretching, which is next to impossible since she skates just about every other day and they need at least overnight for the work.  That will buy a couple of months if we can get it done, but I've got to think ahead.

The shop is recommending the Freestyle, but the numbers from Jackson on the Debut seem close.  They tell me it's too stiff for her.  I do trust them, they are very hesitant about overbooting, and not too keen on the "stiffness numbers" from the mfg's.  She's currently in the Elle, and after 6 months they shows no sign of breakdown so that seems to be the right stiffness for her.  The fitter's philosophy is that if they don't break down before they are outgrown they are the right stiffness.  I get that and it makes some sense, but I think it's time for separates with a better blade, Coro Ace, or maybe try the Eclipse version with the 60 day return.  I don't want to waste money on the Freestyle with the blade, and they don't sell it boot only anymore.

She's at FS5, working on singles, no axel, but that's the goal for the next year.  She's 9 and a little teeny thing with not an ounce of fat (she definitely didn't get that from me!)  Her coaches are big on Sp-Teri, which is local, but man, way too much at this point. She's skated in Jackson's since the beginning and they seem to fit her pretty well, the Elle's after heat molding and a couple of punches were perfect.  I guess I'd like to keep her in what she's used to until we squeeze into the Sp-Teri's.

So, can anyone compare the Debut with the Freestyles, or even Competitors as far as stiffness?  Nothing in stock of course at the shop, and we can get whatever we want, but a 20% restock and shipping both ways on a couple of pairs for her to try costs as much extra as just going down the road to the Sp-Teri factory and getting a pair there.

[amy1984]

Can you buy the freestyles without the blade?  I think Jackson offers some of those boots without the matching blade.  That way you can put on whatever you want.

[Sibelius]

I did check with Jackson, and it is no longer possible to get the Freestyle or Competitor boot only.  Kind of dismissive of the needs of smaller skaters who don't need that much boot, but need better blades.  They also said the Debut would be way too much boot since she hasn't broken the Elle's down yet.

[sampaguita]

There's a thread on the Debut here. A major difference between the Freestyle and the Debut, aside from the stiffness, is the fit of the boot. You can check out the rest here: http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=7744.0

[tothepointe]

I've had both the Freestyle and the Debut. I do think the fit of the Debut is better. I would say they are about the same stiffness but I think the Debut is supposed to be the equivalent of the Competitor. I'm a heavier adult so that makes a difference and I do have a deep knee bend when I want to.

I think though that the Debut does have a much stiffer tongue since that's where I was feeling the resistance when I first started to break them in.

From the rumours I've heard, I think they are revamping the Freestyle/Competitor line to be similar to the Debut. What I was told was they were coming out with the Debut type with thermoplastic soles. Not sure when though.

Sounds like the Elle is where you need to still be just a larger size and you might have to ditch the blade.

[Sibelius]

Thanks,  sticking with the Elle is an option It's a pretty nice boot, but I've got what I call a shoe girl.  She always wants something new and different!  I would think another Elle and changing the blade would work better since only one variable is changing.  Fitter said if we stick with the Ultima blade line (other than the Matrix series) there's no plugging involved.  Waiting to have the conversation about blades with coach. 7' rocker, or 8' rocker, and what spin profile.  We bought a couple of months by having them stretched, but once she says they're getting tight I've got to move on it.  Learned my lesson this go around!

[tothepointe]

It might be possible to order the Elle, pay full price but ask them to leave the blades mounted separately so you won't have to worry about plugging. It may be they don't want to be in the business of selling the lighter boots separately because of SKU and stock issues but will quite happily sell you a unassembled boot and blade set.

[tothepointe]

The debut is really pretty though. Even my coach was commenting she wanted a pair for her next and was dismayed that it doesn't come as stiff as she needs.

[Sibelius]

We saw the Debut at the fitter a couple of months ago, it was lovely.  She was enamored with the crystals.  Good idea about an unmourned blade, hadn't thought of that.  We've had some really good customer service with Jackson.  They replaced her Artiste when a hook broke.  No questions, just said it's under warranty, of course we'll replace it.  I'll ask the fitter tomorrow after her classes if that's a possibility.

[Sibelius]

Well, no on ordering Freestyle boot with unmounted blade.  Fitter does give a little credit for the blade when you buy a different one, so that's something.  My skater tried on a Riedell boot and gave me the fiercest "no" look I've seen.  Definitely a Jackson girl, at least until it's Sp-Teri, or Harlick.  Fitter recommends Ultima blades since they fit the mounting pattern, and since she says they are more reliably machined (robotically) than the hand made blades from Wilson and MK.  So, when the time comes it will either be another Elle, or Freestyle with an Ultima Legacy or Eclipse Aurora (if we want the 7' rocker and the 27" spin profile).  She did say that the blade that comes on the Competitor, the Aspire XP, is a pretty nice blade for the money.  So I have a path to follow when my skater hints her boots are too tight.

[nicklaszlo]

Can you buy the freestyles without the blade?

I once bought a new pair where the blade had been removed.  Probably unique circumstances.  I got a good discount.