My Skates Update/Review/Rant - Riedell Stride > Edea Chorus

[cittiecat]

So to kick this off I'm putting the link to the thread where many of you helped with my original purchase decision: http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=7019.0

So here are some of the relevant facts:
Boots: Riedell Stride
Blade: Eclipse Aurora (started with stock blade)
Age: 25
Weight: ~205lbs
Level: Freestyle 2 / passed pre-bronze MITF and Free (Bought skates at Adult Basic 3 or 4 on the old levels).
Weekly Skating: 6+ hours

Overall Conclusion: This was the right skate for where I was.

I honestly have loved this skate, but have recently run into some issues. From March 2016 to August 2016 I skated on this skate with the stock blade, in August/September I swapped out my blade for the Aurora. This has held up fairly well over the last year given my weight and how much I skate. It certainly isn't completely broken down but it is starting to be flimsy and the boot has substantially warped (as can be seen in the photos).

As you can see in the photos the ankle of the boot has curved off to the side. My understanding is that this is the result of misaligned blades, which I find particularly problematic because the stock blades came permanently mounted eliminating my ability to have them fully set to my needs. This is frustrating also because I had an issue getting to my outside edge for a few months last year when I regularly supinate, thus getting to an outside edge should never have been a long term issue issue. At that time I had a technician look at my skate and learned that the heel of the boot was not leveled properly so the blade was cock eyed.

To summarize my boots shipped with misaligned (my understanding from one of our coaches is they aren't just misaligned for me but were not appropriately set at a neutral center position ever) permanently mounted blades to an unleveled sole.

To top all this off I was having a lot of problems with my outside left three turn starting in December (it was fine before then), I would skid in the turn almost every time unless it was a tight small turn with a lottttt of knee bend. Turns out this was very likely due to a bad sharpening resulting in a high inside edge and low outside edge. I am in the process of getting them resharpened so I cannot say one hundred percent this was the problem but I'm fairly confident that it is.

All of this has added up to me deciding to order new skates. (Edea Chorus and Coronation Ace)

I will say despite all the issues that seemed to be out of the box issues that lead to larger issues in the long run, I still love these skates! These were such a perfect fit for my foot and after the initial break in they were very comfortable. My biggest regret is that because I feel there were a lot of production issues with the boots, I want to try a different brand, but that means the blades I invested in will not fit the skates I'm getting.

I plan to also post why I picked the Edea Chorus in this thread later, but I wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts on the issues I experienced.

[tstop4me]

My understanding is that this is the result of misaligned blades, which I find particularly problematic because the stock blades came permanently mounted eliminating my ability to have them fully set to my needs.

Could you clarify this? By permanently mounted, you mean that the stock blades were attached with rivets?  But you (or a skate tech) removed the rivets, detached the stock blades, and mounted new blades (if so, with screws or rivets)?   What was the price of the Strides?  How much did it cost to remove the old blades and mount the new blades (forget the cost of the new blades, just interested in the cost of the operation)?  <<ETA, I just checked.  Strides can be ordered as boots only; so I'm looking forward to your clarification.  Also, the website says these come with leather soles.  Was that the case for yours?>>

[cittiecat]

Could you clarify this? By permanently mounted, you mean that the stock blades were attached with rivets?  But you (or a skate tech) removed the rivets, detached the stock blades, and mounted new blades (if so, with screws or rivets)?   What was the price of the Strides?  How much did it cost to remove the old blades and mount the new blades (forget the cost of the new blades, just interested in the cost of the operation)?  <<ETA, I just checked.  Strides can be ordered as boots only; so I'm looking forward to your clarification.  Also, the website says these come with leather soles.  Was that the case for yours?>>

They came attached with screws to leather soles but they came with every screw in place not just the adjustment screws as I was lead to believe. If you look at a blade mounting plate on most blades above entry level you will see some holes are circles and some are more like slots. The slots are the adjustment screw places and it would allow the blade to be moved left and right to adjust for pronation or supination and other foot issues. After the blade is adjusted then you would put in the screws in the circle holes to permanently set the blades. After blades are permanently mounted the issue with moving them is that the old holes would need to be plugged to prevent boot rot (excess water getting deep in the sole and rotting the leather) and you could run into issues with the integrity of the sole if a new hole were to close to an old one.

As for the changing of the blades. . . I purposefully went from one eclipse blade to another so that I could change them myself because all the holes and the imprint the blade left on the sole matched up. Cost wise this ended up being about $40 because I need to buy some things I didn't already have (not including the $200 for the blades). In the end changing them myself wasn't the death of my boots but it's not something I'm be reattempting just yet.

Total costs:
Riedell Stride with Eclipse Capri blade (looked up the original stock blade) $259
Eclipse Aurora was about $200

Riedell Stride (boot only) is $239, which I wish I had done in retrospect and just gone straight to the Aurora and had someone here mount them.

Supplies for changing blade:
Clear silicone caulk to seal in the new blade (optional)
WD-40 to clean the boot
Small hand drill (my husband's big drill would have had too much torque)
New screws (I could do a whole other post on why this was necessary)

I think that answered every thing but let me know if I missed something.

[tstop4me]

They came attached with screws to leather soles but they came with every screw in place not just the adjustment screws as I was lead to believe. If you look at a blade mounting plate on most blades above entry level you will see some holes are circles and some are more like slots. The slots are the adjustment screw places and it would allow the blade to be moved left and right to adjust for pronation or supination and other foot issues. After the blade is adjusted then you would put in the screws in the circle holes to permanently set the blades. After blades are permanently mounted the issue with moving them is that the old holes would need to be plugged to prevent boot rot (excess water getting deep in the sole and rotting the leather) and you could run into issues with the integrity of the sole if a new hole were to close to an old one.

As for the changing of the blades. . . I purposefully went from one eclipse blade to another so that I could change them myself because all the holes and the imprint the blade left on the sole matched up. Cost wise this ended up being about $40 because I need to buy some things I didn't already have (not including the $200 for the blades). In the end changing them myself wasn't the death of my boots but it's not something I'm be reattempting just yet.

Thanks for the clarification.  OK.  But this means that the new blade is mounted along the same axis as the old blade, so if the old blade wasn't properly aligned for your feet, the new blade isn't properly aligned either.  Or am I missing something here?

I have problem feet and I've tinkered with mounting and re-mounting the blades mucho times.  Here's what I've found that works for plugging up the old holes and allows you to redrill at or near the old holes.  Drill out the old holes so you can insert plugs cut from a wooden dowel rod (cut the plugs a bit long so they jut out from the holes a bit).  If the screw holes aren't too worn, you can use 1/8" diam; if they are badly worn, use 3/16" diam.  Drill the hole 1/32" diam larger than the dowel to allow clearance.  Then cement the dowel in place with steel-filled epoxy [there are several, but some are hard to get; Amazon carries some; however, if there's a Home Depot near you, they carry one by JB Weld that works well:  http://www.homedepot.com/p/J-B-Weld-Weld-8265-s/100189012].  Use the regular, not the the quick set.  It will take 24 hrs to fully harden.  Then sand down the plugs flush with the sole and heel.  The plug is stronger than leather.  Position the blade where you like and drill new holes.  If you mess up, you can repeat the operation.

Note that some skate techs simply pound a plug (wood or leather) into the holes, or fill the holes with glue.  This is somewhat OK for keeping out water, but no good for redrilling.

[cittiecat]

Thanks for the clarification.  OK.  But this means that the new blade is mounted along the same axis as the old blade, so if the the old blade wasn't properly aligned for your feet, the new blade isn't properly aligned either.  Or am I missing something here?

I have problem feet and I've tinkered with mounting and re-mounting the blades mucho times.  Here's what I've found that works for plugging up the old holes and allows you to redrill at or near the old holes.  Drill out the old holes so you can insert plugs cut from a wooden dowel rod (cut the plugs a bit long so they jut out from the holes a bit).  If the screw holes aren't too worn, you can use 1/8" diam; if they are badly worn, use 3/16" diam.  Drill the hole 1/32" diam larger than the dowel to allow clearance.  Then cement the dowel in place with steel-filled epoxy [there are several, but some are hard to get; Amazon carries some; however, if there's a Home Depot near you, they carry one by JB Weld that works well:  http://www.homedepot.com/p/J-B-Weld-Weld-8265-s/100189012].  Use the regular, not the the quick set.  It will take 24 hrs to fully harden.  Then sand down the plugs flush with the sole and heel.  The plug is stronger than leather.  Position the blade where you like and drill new holes.  If you mess up, you can repeat the operation.

Note that some skate techs simply pound a plug (wood or leather) into the holes, or fill the holes with glue.  This is somewhat OK for keeping out water, but no good for redrilling.

All of that would have been dandy and was part of my research before switching my blades had I known at the time that they were not properly aligned, but as I said the person who I went to when I had noticed an issue with my edges did not examine the overall placement of the blade, he just adjusted for the way I was standing in them at that time by adding shims. The shims, which I left in place when I changed the blades. And since then my boots have substantially warped. But after the first sharpening of the new blades I was skating fine, it wasn't until the second sharpening (current one) that I began having issues again. So yes you are correct it was misaligned with the old blade and the new one.

The reason I discovered the warping and misalignment was because of the bad sharpening (which likely further contributed to the warping since it's been three months on the bad sharpening) and having them looked at, at which time the person examining my skate held my boot with the toe facing me (like my photos) which is an angle to my boot that I rarely if ever find myself in. Actually, the last time I looked at my boot at that angle was probably when I changed the blade and at that time it was only about two or three weeks into me attempting a scratch spin and a waltz jump. I.e. I hadn't done very much that would apply torque to the boot.

Timeline:
-Feb/March 2016 - bought skate
-Feb-June 2016 - struggle with outside edges for no apparent reason (literally I could do an outside three turn on almost a flat)
-June 2016 - Skate Tech shims skate and outside edges immediately happen *yay*
-August 2016 - change blade and have zero problems
-December 2016 - sharpening and suddenly left outside three skids all the time
-December 2016 - March 2017 attempt to correct three turn using body with limited success (this has been particularly fun on waltz eights and on spin entries) *coughcough*
-March 2017 - ask new coach at rink that also has a fair amount of experience with sharpening and fitting skates to sharpen your already sharp skates because you want to remove that from the list of possible issues. Learn that your skate is sharpened wrong (which you can now feel when you place your finger in the blade and know what you are looking for) and see your boot from a new angle and go WTF.

-March 28, 2017 write a post using a strange blend of 1st and 3rd person.

[cittiecat]

Why I'm getting new skates. . .Which is pretty simple:
1. I was planning to in the near future anyhow.
2. They have broken down enough that I felt like jumping on them for another 4-6 months would have been their limit to still be safe for my size.
3. They are warped which has likely contributed to the breakdown.
4. When I changed the blades my right boot had some mild water damage that makes me concerned about trying to have them fixed. Because even if I can fix the warping, which I think re-heatmolding them could fix most of it. I would need to have the blades moved to prevent it from happening again.
5. I am probably going to still try to fix them but not without something to skate on in the meantime. Difference being I will try to fix them versus paying a chunk of what I was already saving for new boots to someone else to fix them and not have skates for a week or two because I would need to drive over an hour and drop them off.



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[Query]

You can deal with the imbalance by modifying the insole. Add tape or adhesive foam (e.g., moleskin) to give you the shape you want, that places you in balance and gives you a properly snug fit. If you have too a tight fit to add tape or foam, you could instead sand the insole down a bit. Or cut a completely new insole out of fresh foam. Either way, it only takes a few minutes, so it might be worth it even if you will have new skates in a few weeks.

It is conceivable that your skate tech moved the blade to the outside to compensate for your supination, without mentioning that he did so, when he shimmed things. That's very, very common. Unless you know for a fact that he didn't. He might have then shimmed to compensate for the resulting blade misalignment, and done the permanent mount.

The insole modification method I mentioned doesn't generally warp boots as much as mounting blades off-center, but most techs are taught to just offset the blade to the side. Easier and only takes a pound or two with a hammer, when you are still on your test mounts. Literally only a few seconds. It would NOT be considered bad technique to do so by most of the skating community.

Fixing the warp would be harder - but a heat mold might work. If the dealer will do it, there will probably be a charge - though maybe you can convince him he was at fault, and should do it free? If you do it yourself with a handheld hair drier, it will be free (assuming you have a handheld hair drier), but you may need to experiment a bit. It shouldn't be a big deal.

Incidentally, modifying Edea boots is supposed to be a lot more work and knowledge intensive (e.g., moving the blades would be harder, and you can probably count on your fingers the number of people in the world who are qualified to modify the shape of Edea boots), and Edea tends to assume a somewhat different foot shape. Maybe you should consider going back to Riedell, despite your unhappiness, especially since you say they fit otherwise? But it is your choice.

Honestly, if re-heat-molding would fix the warp, the type of issue you have had is well within what is common for skaters to deal with. Especially since these were not high enough level boots for your current skating level (an upgrade is appropriate), a break down over a year isn't all that bad.

Though, IMHO, if a skate tech doesn't deliver consistent sharpenings, that skate tech isn't worth using.

Maybe you could ask your coach's advice on your next skates...

[tstop4me]

Timeline:
-Feb/March 2016 - bought skate
-Feb-June 2016 - struggle with outside edges for no apparent reason (literally I could do an outside three turn on almost a flat)
-June 2016 - Skate Tech shims skate and outside edges immediately happen *yay*
-August 2016 - change blade and have zero problems
-December 2016 - sharpening and suddenly left outside three skids all the time
-December 2016 - March 2017 attempt to correct three turn using body with limited success (this has been particularly fun on waltz eights and on spin entries) *coughcough*
-March 2017 - ask new coach at rink that also has a fair amount of experience with sharpening and fitting skates to sharpen your already sharp skates because you want to remove that from the list of possible issues. Learn that your skate is sharpened wrong (which you can now feel when you place your finger in the blade and know what you are looking for) and see your boot from a new angle and go WTF.

-March 28, 2017 write a post using a strange blend of 1st and 3rd person.

What motivated you to change blades in Aug 16?

[cittiecat]

You can deal with the imbalance by modifying the insole. Add tape or adhesive foam (e.g., moleskin) to give you the shape you want, that places you in balance and gives you a properly snug fit. If you have too a tight fit to add tape or foam, you could instead sand the insole down a bit. Or cut a completely new insole out of fresh foam. Either way, it only takes a few minutes, so it might be worth it even if you will have new skates in a few weeks.

It is conceivable that your skate tech moved the blade to the outside to compensate for your supination, without mentioning that he did so, when he shimmed things. That's very, very common. Unless you know for a fact that he didn't. He might have then shimmed to compensate for the resulting blade misalignment, and done the permanent mount.

The insole modification method I mentioned doesn't generally warp boots as much as mounting blades off-center, but most techs are taught to just offset the blade to the side. Easier and only takes a pound or two with a hammer, when you are still on your test mounts. Literally only a few seconds. It would NOT be considered bad technique to do so by most of the skating community.

Fixing the warp would be harder - but a heat mold might work. If the dealer will do it, there will probably be a charge - though maybe you can convince him he was at fault, and should do it free? If you do it yourself with a handheld hair drier, it will be free (assuming you have a handheld hair drier), but you may need to experiment a bit. It shouldn't be a big deal.

Incidentally, modifying Edea boots is supposed to be a lot more work and knowledge intensive (e.g., moving the blades would be harder, and you can probably count on your fingers the number of people in the world who are qualified to modify the shape of Edea boots), and Edea tends to assume a somewhat different foot shape. Maybe you should consider going back to Riedell, despite your unhappiness, especially since you say they fit otherwise? But it is your choice.

Honestly, if re-heat-molding would fix the warp, the type of issue you have had is well within what is common for skaters to deal with. Especially since these were not high enough level boots for your current skating level (an upgrade is appropriate), a break down over a year isn't all that bad.

Though, IMHO, if a skate tech doesn't deliver consistent sharpenings, that skate tech isn't worth using.

Maybe you could ask your coach's advice on your next skates...

The imbalance at this point is more to do with the sharpening then anything else. I need to get the sharpening fixed before I can fully asses the impact of the warping.

Skate tech did not move the blade, one he spent a total of 10 minutes with me and my skate never left my sight and two as I said in my original post the blade came permanently mounted, to move the blade alignment he would have either had to remove several screws and leave me on just the adjustment screws or he would have had to completely remove the blade and fill some of the existing holes.

As far as the heater situation, I live in a sort of strange place that lacks consistency in dealers and techs (a contributing factor to the whole situation). That being said the rink has an oven that I'm welcome to use for free.

[cittiecat]

What motivated you to change blades in Aug 16?

I wanted a blade with a rocker for spinning rather then the stock blade that had very little rocker. In retrospect I probably could have learned to spin better on the old blade but I did find a huge difference after going to the new blade.

[cittiecat]

Picking Edea despite concerns XD

I did a fair amount of research on Edea before picking the Edea Chorus, including reading many threads on the forum. (I have previously done fairly exhaustive research on the other brands I could have been fitted for and then some.) That being said I have talked to several of the skaters at my rink that have Edea and they have all been very happy with them. We also have a coach who is experienced with Edea, who measured me for my skate. My coach generally refers the skaters to a tech regarding boots.

Things that appeal to me about Edea are:
-how customizable they are supposedly
-that they are lighter
-to be honest a lot of the "science" of how the footbed aligns with the blade intrigues me

I realize there is a concern that Edea only works for very specific feet, but I have heard the flip of that, which is that a properly fitted edea works for almost any foot. I also realize there is some conflicting information on Edeas breaking down, again I have seen polar opposite opinions. The fact that there are polarized opinions of Edea skates may not be a good sign, but I think my interest in them is almost more curiosity than anything else, so this is likely going to bite me in the behind.

In addition to all of the above I was able to get the Chorus and the Coronation Ace with shipping for ~$470 by ordering from http://iceboxskating.co.uk (also recommended by the coach) and taking advantage of the fact the pound is a very weak right now. That is a price I could live with to try Edea, especially since the boot alone is usually near that price.

As far as specifically choosing the Chorus, it was really between the Chorus and the Ice Fly. Given my weight I was planning to buy a skate rated a bit higher then my skill level. The final deciding factors were really that the Chorus is certainly sufficient for my weight and level, that even though my friends who have Ice Flys assured me that it wouldn't be over booting I couldn't shake the fear of being over booted off, and finally cost. The Ice Fly would have brought my total with blade to just over $600 and that was apparently beyond my tolerance for risk. There are more differences between the Ice Fly and Chorus but they are in favor of the Ice Fly. (such as lighter, appearance, materials used in the skate, and others. (I did not really consider the Concerto because it was very close in price to the Ice Fly and the Ice Fly has more features.)

Conclusion: Is there such a thing as a adventurous but well-researched impulse purchase of an item you actually need in the near future? If so I would say that about sums up this decision.