Measuring jumps . . . bladelengths

[Neverdull44]

I started paying attention to blade lengths in my jumps.   I was doing a "2 blade" loop jump, but am now up to "3 blade legnths" in my loop, cleanly.  At 3, I am really pushing and feeling a strength feeling on my takeoff inside leg.     My toe loop is about 5 in all, and my Waltz will hit near 5.   My flip is about 3.  I do all singles.  I have no other way to measure, other than to do a video.   I figure the longer my jump, the higher the arc must have been.

Does blade legnth matter?  Is it a good indicator of the jump's power?  Is it an indicator of being able to move onto doubles?  What is the "blade length" of doubles.  We have a strong junior skater who is my height, and her loops (even singles) are well over 4.  But, I haven't measured her.

Neverdull.

Mod note: topic moved to On The Boards forum.

[alejeather]

What is the "blade length" of doubles.  We have a strong junior skater who is my height, and her loops (even singles) are well over 4.  But, I haven't measured her.

Neverdull.

I mean, a double could be done in place, so there is no meaningful minimum blade length for a double. But blade length between takeoff and landing on a jump does tell you something about how high you're jumping, as you couldn't cover a long distance without some height. But you can also jump high without covering much distance.

I have heard another skater mention their coach discussing blade lengths in a waltz jump showing that a skater "could" do an axel, but I have no idea whether there is any kind of rule of thumb, as how quickly you rotate comes into play as well. I suppose it *could* be that if you have X blade lengths in your waltz jump, that regardless of whether you rotate relatively slowly, you have the raw power to do an axel. There are a LOT of other factors in an axel besides power, however!

[axelwylie]

My former coach wanted me to make sure I hit at least 3 blade lengths in every single jump. That normally came from speed and power. But, a longer blade length jump might not be executed correctly so don't just focus on that.

I don't pay attention to blade length in my Axel. Sometimes it is about 2 while other times it isn't. As long as it is clean, that is all that matters to me (at least in my current situation).

[PhysicsOnIce]

  I figure the longer my jump, the higher the arc must have been.

Does blade legnth matter?  Is it a good indicator of the jump's power?  Is it an indicator of being able to move onto doubles?  What is the "blade length" of doubles.  We have a strong junior skater who is my height, and her loops (even singles) are well over 4.  But, I haven't measured her.

Neverdull.

You have to be very careful with this thinking!!!
A longer jump is not necessarily a technically clean jump. In doubles yes you need the height (to make it clean and pretty... I've seen girls land clean double by hardly jumping), but the height doesn't come from jumping out. It comes from jumping up, and the double rotation comes from a quicker snap not necessarily raw power or speed. In fact, a lot of coaches teach doubles from a near standstill to make sure that skater can generate enough rotational velocity to get the jump around. 

I often get the comment from my coach, " You are jumping to far out"  specially on my 2Sal and most of the when this occurs it ends up with me on the ice. Actually, most of my doubles are "smaller" than my singles.  My Single loops  and Sals are around 4 blades long, while my double loops/Sals are around 2 to 3. Anything longer and I know I jumped to far out to snap in quick enough to rotate them or pre-rotated my shoulders. My Double Toe attempts are problematic because I don't pass at all, but the jump length is huge because I take often too much speed into them, but I have yet to land a clean one.

Personally, I think once you are more comfortable with the technique of the jump, the jump becomes large/height. So, I would never suggest waiting for a particular jump length before starting a double. I think the technique is more important.

[Isk8NYC]

One of the PSA Sports Science courses included physics/analyses by Kat Arbour (U Del) I think it was called "The Science/Physics of Jumps."  The course materials stated that jump height is determined by the skater's springing up from a bent knee to vault into the air, whereas jump distance came from entry speed (and ability to conserve that forward momentum, ie. not digging in to the ice and slowing down the takeoff.)  Some jump height is gained from speed, but it's minimal when compared to spring. 

[Doubletoe]

One of the PSA Sports Science courses included physics/analyses by Kat Arbour (U Del) I think it was called "The Science/Physics of Jumps."  The course materials stated that jump height is determined by the skater's springing up from a bent knee to vault into the air, whereas jump distance came from entry speed (and ability to conserve that forward momentum, ie. not digging in to the ice and slowing down the takeoff.)  Some jump height is gained from speed, but it's minimal when compared to spring.

Yes, this.  In fact, you're really always making a choice between prioritizing height and prioritizing distance.  Covering distance is desirable on single jumps because it adds to the overall impression of speed and flow.  When you jump too high, you tend to get less outflow on the jump than if you choose to spend less time going up and leave some momentum for the landing edge.  On the other hand, jumping up instead of across the ice is very important on some of the multi-revolution jumps, particularly the axel.   

[Neverdull44]

I tried a double loop today (after coach had left the ice) .  I concentrated on jump high and pulling in.  It turned an extra 1/3 turn in the air from a single.  It landed going into the center of the arc.     It was just one blade length long on the ice.  No fall, it wanted to turn into a back spin.   Me bad . . . .   I prefer double loop to anything else double.  Had I turned more, then I would have been going into the direction I came, and could have fallen.  So, I  decided to go work on other things.  Test is next week, and I don't want to hurt myself before it.

[davincisop]

Funny story about this actually.

When I was little, we used to do the blade length measuring. And we were all seeing who could throw the biggest waltz jump. Well, I happened to get a pretty big one that day, and left my starting foot on the takeoff, while I kept counting with the other blade.... and fell into a split. Which my body still can't do (side splits, I can do forwards).

Oh boy, did it hurt. It hurt so much I had to leave skating camp that day....