Lesson/Coach ?

jlspink22 · February 02, 2015, 04:34:01 PM

PS has been wall to wall people since skating is in season for the next few months.

DD saw the kids at LTS at the rink where she skates privates (different from her current group lesson rink) and they had a special running - Thursday evenings (4) in Feb for $85. Well, I asked her coach if she could do it (like a substitute for PS ice time) and he said not to put her in them.

I know he would like to have her for 2 lessons a week but I am working on adjusting my schedule to be able to take her 2 early afternoons (because I have to work), I do plan on substituting her current dance classes for an extra skating lesson in the summer and see where that takes us. There is only so much I can do for now besides letting her practice as much as possible.

Why would he think extra group time was a bad idea, even if they are told not to pass her for sake of "slow and steady"?

rd350 · February 02, 2015, 04:51:12 PM

Group lessons are so tricky. I think it's really hard to "really" work on technique in group. Maybe he didn't want her getting sloppy habits?

I have done a couple of group classes and what I do like is you are introduced to many new things in a short amount of time but for sure the quality of instruction is looser and they just can't focus on every student's technique that well.

twinskaters · February 02, 2015, 05:18:32 PM

I would ask the coach for his reasoning. My girls' coach has never discouraged them taking group lessons along with privates, even though he never gets to teach their level.

He could have a perfectly good reason for it. Or he could just not want her exposed to other coaches you might like. Can't guess unless you ask!

jlspink22 · February 02, 2015, 06:20:11 PM

I do know he has coached or coached with her current group teachers. I think the older level club kids sometimes teach the Thursday evening ones. I am going to bring it up Wednesday.

I have to skate with her on publics and hover lately because of the crowds - can't even skate much myself it's that chaotic.

jlspink22 · February 04, 2015, 05:16:21 PM

I asked her coach who said that Group lessons will only develop a skater so far. I mentioned bad habits and he said not even that so much as being a competitive versus recreational skater.

I told him I know she needs more 1:1 but I have put off more private lesson time in the past because this was still very new and she wasn't even jumping yet (I mean she's only 5!). But it looks like its time to bump her to 2 privates a week.

I think I might leave her in the Sunday groups for the social aspect because she has little skating friends there.

I need to plant a money tree.

sarahspins · February 04, 2015, 10:38:56 PM

Quote from: jlspink22 on February 04, 2015, 05:16:21 PM
I asked her coach who said that Group lessons will only develop a skater so far.

This IS true, but honestly at her level it's not going to be something that limits her skill progression, particularly since she is working with a private coach as well - it can still be seen as supplemental to her private lesson instruction. Once she has all of her single jumps it is a little different, and the benefit she could get out of a 30 minute group class vs. opting for a 15 minute private lesson (they cost about the same at my rink) is questionable... and at that point I would recommend investing in more private lesson time over group classes, but she's not quite there yet.

What I have seen at my own rink is that kids who are in group classes while taking private lessons tend to progress a little bit faster than a skater only taking private lessons does - maybe it's the extra instruction, and maybe it's just the time spent with other skaters at the same level (which can be a HUGE motivator for some students to be the one to get a new skill "first" - or for them all to get it during the same class session, or just because they have one of those "show off" personalities and will work a little harder when they can show off with their friends than they would one-on-one - it still produces results).

That said, she's 5 - if group classes allow her for more productive time on the ice than skating during public would, that's all the argument I would need as a parent.

twokidsskatemom · February 04, 2015, 11:04:09 PM

Quote from: jlspink22 on February 04, 2015, 05:16:21 PM
I asked her coach who said that Group lessons will only develop a skater so far. I mentioned bad habits and he said not even that so much as being a competitive versus recreational skater.

I told him I know she needs more 1:1 but I have put off more private lesson time in the past because this was still very new and she wasn't even jumping yet (I mean she's only 5!). But it looks like its time to bump her to 2 privates a week.

I think I might leave her in the Sunday groups for the social aspect because she has little skating friends there.

I need to plant a money tree.

IMO that coach wants your money in privates, not group classes. Even my daughter novice level does group classes with kids her level , and she is pretty competive. You really should try to get the best bang for your money and she is only 5. You have YEARS to go the private lesson route . Yes kids in privates get better faster but at her age its ok.
We are in our 12 year of being on the ice.

karne · February 05, 2015, 03:51:49 AM

Um, no five year old needs TWO private lessons per week.

It sounds like, unfortunately, you've found a money-grabbing coach.

Loops · February 05, 2015, 05:54:48 AM

Quote from: karne on February 05, 2015, 03:51:49 AM
Um, no five year old needs TWO private lessons per week.

It sounds like, unfortunately, you've found a money-grabbing coach.

While I do generally agree with this, and suspect the coach might be digging, I think it also very much depends on the situation. One of the women I grew up with was elite-track, she had all kinds of potential. It was evident early on (she trained with, and consistently beat the Weisses), and she was in relatively hard core training by the time we were 6. Unfortunately for her, life events forced her to quit just as she hit Novice and things started getting interesting. A few other kids I trained with were also elite track and in hard core training from pretty young (all were Pam Gregory's students and went to Delaware with her when she moved). They were ultimately medal contenders at Nationals and competed internationally.

I agree with SarahSpins and TwokidsSkateMom- if groups are more productive than publics, I'd go that route, there's always time. If your daughter's showing elite potential, and you think she'd benefit from, and you can afford 2 privates a week, shoot, why not. Your daughter certainly loves it enough and will likely be happy whatever you decide. Make the decision that's right for your family.

jlspink22 · February 05, 2015, 06:49:09 AM

At current group lessons, she has pretty much surpassed all of the other kids but 1. So it ends up being a $22 practice/socialization session. Actually more because I pay the $25/session parent fee to police her and make sure she doesn't take anyone else out because she is FAST and nimble. So that's about $26/pop. (Privates are $42 for 30 min lesson plus ice fee).

Now, I agree it's fine if she practices better than at publics until public slows down again in spring (so much cheaper too! $12 for both of us). She can't be on FS without a coach just yet, so that's not an option. She hasn't mastered B6-8 yet the way he wants it to be, so I can't put her in FS only lessons to challenge her. I think she still has to learn the combination move and something else yet anyways.

She also ends up fighting for attention and tends to win out too which she then becomes that one kid who is a coach hog. I see that complaint on here all the time.

I don't know! I do like her exposure to the different coaches and she learns something from each of them no doubt. But I also have to be he go between to make sure groups and privates aren't competing with each other. Most of her group coaches know her private coach well or take their own lessons from him which has made it easier. Adding more coaches to that mix just complicates things.

FigureSpins · February 05, 2015, 10:03:12 AM

Quote from: karne on February 05, 2015, 03:51:49 AM
Um, no five year old needs TWO private lessons per week.

It sounds like, unfortunately, you've found a money-grabbing coach.

Maybe, maybe not. I suggest short lessons for younger kids and multiple short lessons each week to get them to focus and practice. I'm not in it for the money. It's to get the family on task. Many families will agree to having the kid practice but won't follow through unless someone's expecting them.

Gabby on Ice · February 05, 2015, 11:23:12 AM

I agree that five-year-old children do not need more than one private lesson a week. When she is older and wants to be a more serious skater, that is when you should start doing two privates a week.

jlspink22 · February 05, 2015, 08:06:42 PM

Although I'm guessing some of you would disagree we decided to switch out the group with a private from March until summer. (Summer is end of dance season and there's a group at that time available). This will also free up Sunday which is my DHs only day off and condense activities to 2 evenings a week instead of spread out. If it doesn't work out it's not permanent, unlike groups where there's a 6 week commitment and no refunds.

littlerain · February 05, 2015, 10:39:32 PM

Hope it works for her, especially since the change to your schedule sounds positive!

twinskaters · February 05, 2015, 10:46:30 PM

Your group lessons are a lot more expensive than ours! I think that's about what I pay for both my kids at group. Another $7.50 if I skate, but they don't need me out there at all, so I don't factor that in. I pay the same for privates, though, as you do.

Two privates a week would be too much expense and commitment for me at her age, but she's not my kid. I hope it works out!

twokidsskatemom · February 05, 2015, 11:15:02 PM

I dont have an issue with two privates at age 5 if the skater really can handle it. I think my daughter went from two 15 minute lessons at age 4 to 2 thirty minute lessons at age 5. It was more the comment the coach made that competive kids dont do group classes which is to me a red flag that the coach wants the kid in privates. At that age who can tell who will be competive?
Good luck!!

jlspink22 · February 06, 2015, 07:05:37 AM

Quote from: twokidsskatemom on February 05, 2015, 11:15:02 PM
I dont have an issue with two privates at age 5 if the skater really can handle it. I think my daughter went from two 15 minute lessons at age 4 to 2 thirty minute lessons at age 5. It was more the comment the coach made that competive kids dont do group classes which is to me a red flag that the coach wants the kid in privates. At that age who can tell who will be competive?
Good luck!!

He's never discouraged her from taking group lessons all together but the way I took it was that 2 group lessons are not going to benefit her more than 1 relative to the time and money spent. He has said a few other things that made it seem like he feels it's a disservice to pass kids who are barely doing the skill, and her group coaches know how he feels so they never pass her officially.

Our current LTS is geared to get kids into hockey - it's a major NHL practice rink. It may be better at our club's rink but we haven't tried here yet, they do have enough kids that they can hold separate FS sessions.

icedancer · February 06, 2015, 12:49:56 PM

Quote from: jlspink22 on February 06, 2015, 07:05:37 AM

Our current LTS is geared to get kids into hockey - it's a major NHL practice rink. It may be better at our club's rink but we haven't tried here yet, they do have enough kids that they can hold separate FS sessions.

This is why it's hard to comment on your dilemma regarding group classes - without knowing the ins and outs of your particular area and rinks - if this were happening in my area I would be suspicious that a coach was just trying to increase his or her income - I have seen this happen where a five-year-old will be in constant lessons with no practice time - but if this rink is as you describe - without even real free-style sessions for figure skaters then I'm sure you are doing the right thing.

jlspink22 · February 06, 2015, 04:41:53 PM

Quote from: icedancer on February 06, 2015, 12:49:56 PM
This is why it's hard to comment on your dilemma regarding group classes - without knowing the ins and outs of your particular area and rinks - if this were happening in my area I would be suspicious that a coach was just trying to increase his or her income - I have seen this happen where a five-year-old will be in constant lessons with no practice time - but if this rink is as you describe - without even real free-style sessions for figure skaters then I'm sure you are doing the right thing.

Her current class has 4 B5, 1B6, 1B8 and 1 FS1. And 2 of the B5 kids I personally feel would benefit from more B3/4 because I see them having a really hard time. A group coach can only do so much. We will try the club rink this summer, and he had no problem with her doing that.

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Lesson/Coach ?