Feeling Lost and Confused

[Mom2NewSkater]

As my username suggests, I am a mom to a new skater.  I've posted here one other time concerning skates.  Now I just need some general advice.

I probably gave some background when I was asking about skates, but here it is again.  My daughter is 8.  She will be 9 in September.  A few months ago my in-laws were watching her and suggested they go ice skating.  She had never been but said she'd love to go.  She immediately took to the ice... just went out and started skating like she'd been doing it all her life.  She loved it.

My ILs saw where they were doing sign ups for a basic skills class and asked her if she wanted to take it.  She did, so they signed her up.  She easily passed the class.  There was a week or two off, and then she started the basic skills 2 class.  Again she easily passed the class.  The rink doesn't do classes over the summer. 

I've very informally chatted with the director of skating at the rink, and she has told me my daughter is a very strong skater.

My daughter has danced for six years.  She is ok at it, but it is like a different world with skating.  That being the case my husband and I decided it might be time to start talking to her about a different direction (skating).  She had already told us that she like skating more than dance.  She has decided she'd like to take private skating lessons. 

Now onto my questions/needing advice.  Upon talking to another skating mom whose daughter is in our local figure skating club, I'm afraid we may be rushing things.  I'm also a bit confused.  First I should say I do not think she was trying to discourage me in any way.  I've known her for several years, but ice skating isn't something we've discussed other than I knew her daughter skated.

So my first question is do you think it is too soon for my daughter to start private lessons?  My second question is if she does take private lessons should she continue with the group basic skill classes once they start back in the fall?  If not, how does she test for the different basic skill levels?

We do have a local FSC.  Should my daughter join now?  The mom I talked to said they'd love to have us (she and her husband are both officers of the club) but told me there was no need to rush joining.  My understanding is if my daughter isn't a member she can't test.  If that is the case, how would she test for her basic skills if she wasn't taking group lessons?  My thought is the club isn't real expensive to join, so why not join for a year.  If she decides skating isn't for her, we don't have to renew the membership.  I just don't know how I'm going to learn about figure skating unless I get into a group and meet more people who know about it.

If we go with private lessons now, how should I select a coach?  There are basically three adult coaches.  The mom I talked to said two of the three would be fine.  One of the two she said would be fine does not do dance (does that make sense - is it a style of skating?).  She coaches freestyle.  I'm not sure what "dance" is exactly, but I could see my daughter liking that style.  The other one of the two teaches dance and freestyle (are there other styles)  I've been told it is frowned upon to switch coaches, so I feel like I need to make the right choice upfront.

The mom also mentioned there was at least one girl that was not a class A coach (is that what it is called?)  I guess she can't take anyone to competition or something like that.  Would it be better to start with someone like that to see where my daughter wants to go with this?

Oh my... I feel like I have a hundred + questions and don't know where to go with this.  I've looking for any advice anyone can give about this new journey.  If I'm not asking the right questions, then tell me what I should be asking and give me you thoughts and opinions please.     I feel completely lost.

[fsk8r]

A coach is more than just their credentials, you want someone who your daughter can learn from and who you like (professionally). At this stage when she's only at basic skills you want a coach who is good at teaching the basics, you don't need to make decisions as to whether she wants to do ice dance (have a look at what Davis and White did at the Olympics for ideas on what ice dance is), or freestyle (jumps and spins) at this stage. And she can do both or just select one when she's ready. If you pick a coach who only does freestyle and your daughter decides to try ice dance later, there's no reason why you can't talk to that coach and find another one to teach dance, and then make decisions as to whether you want just the one coach or both.

I can't comment on basic skills testing as I'm in the UK, but I would think it is only going to be an issue when your daughter decides to start competing. Over here there aren't any competitions until beginners level which is just after they've completed the whole of the basic skills curriculum and are getting ready to take their first national test. I know there are lower level competitions in the US but I don't know how they work.

There's also no reason why you can't sign up to group classes when they restart and keep having the private lessons. They should just reinforce each other and the group class is often a way of accessing supervised practice (lesson) and cheaper ice time.

Just remember that you don't have to make any finite decisions just yet. Take each day as it comes and enjoy the journey.

[TreSk8sAZ]

I can totally understand how you would be confused, as there are a lot of different ideas that were thrown at you in one conversation! Let me take them a bit out of order, but hopefully I'll touch on everything.

First regarding basic skills versus joining a club. Basic skills is a US Figure Skating program and your daughter has a basic skills membership. The coaches that are teaching her class test to pass her to the next basic skills level. Or, in some cases where I've seen kids who were only taking private lessons, the coach or a skating director passes the child on a basic skills level when they have mastered those moves. Once she has completed the Basic skills curriculum, she can move on to the Freeskate levels and still take group classes and be tested by the coaches to earn a badge.

The testing you need to be a club member for starts at Pre-Preliminary. These are formal, official Moves in The Field and Freeskate tests. This has nothing to do with the basic skills curriculum and is usually taken after going through the group class structure. Until she is ready to take these types of tests (and a coach will help you know when she is) then there really isn't a reason to join the club.

She can even compete in basic skills competitions with her basic skills membership! Again, generally you don't need a full club membership until she hits the pre-pre or No Test levels.

Group classes versus private lessons is such a personal choice. Is your daughter bored with the group lessons? Is she happy with the pace she's progressing? Is she having fun with the group lessons? At basic 2, these should be the goals. Private lessons are great for kids who want to move faster, or who aren't doing well in group lessons. They can also be good to really strengthen the basics. At her level, I'm not sure it's a decision you have to make right this second. And yes, she certainly could do both as the private coach could supplement what she's learning in class as well as work on new and different skills.

I agree with fsk8r regarding finding a coach that your daughter works well with and who has a teaching style that is compatible with her learning style and you as well. Each coach (whatever their focus) is going to bring something different to the table. Can you get a trial lesson with a couple of them and see if which one your daughter likes best? Something you may want to talk to the skating director about. I would also watch how they teach their group classes.

The coaching credentials (A, B, C) refer to what competitions a coach can take their skaters to. The coaches have to pass certain tests to take their skaters to Regionals/Sectionals/Nationals. Others may not have skaters at that level, so they take fewer tests but can still put their skaters on at local competitions.

Ice Dance versus freestyle versus both is something that seems like it would be a ways down the road. Ice Dance involves skating specific patterns to music with timing and expression. Until you get to the higher levels, there are no spins or lifts, and some younger children may find it boring or hard to follow. However, with her dance background, she might like it. But she needs to learn the basics first. I do ice dance as well as freestyle, and my freestyle coach doesn't teach dance. It was not a big deal at all to have a discussion with her about who I could take from for dance when the time was right.

The best way to get to know the skating world in your area (because it's a different culture in each area or even each rink) is to find out when competitions or tests are being held and go and watch. Maybe take your daughter to watch a club session or freestyle and see what the older kids are doing. You already have one leg up on most parents as you know someone in the skating club.

Okay, sorry, that was long. But hopefully it helps a bit!

[Neverdull44]

I'll chime in. I am a skater and a mom of 2 skaters.  I grew up skating.

When I was a girl, another girl came to the rink.  She had several years of formal dance school under her belt.  She was spinning in 6 months and did an axel at a year.   Ballet is extremely good for skaters.   Yes, there are some moves that are done a little differently.   Dancers are going to pick up skating quickly.   If you want so see a high level ballerina doing skating, Youtube "Bellita".  She was light years ahead of her time.

Basic skills are skating across the ice, simple turns of directions, backwards, stopping.  Freestyle is the beginning of one foot spins and turning jumps in the air.   Skating is balance, and each move builds on the other.   At my rink, they offer "group" classes up to Freestyle 6.   This is camel spins, lutz jumps, some girls doing an axel.   Group classes are a great, inexpensive way to get fairly far into skating. 

The beauty of group classes is there is a different coach each session.  You and your daughter get to preview these coaches.  You can pick a coach right now, or you can wait.  There is no problem in switching a coach, just that you have to tell the old coach that you are switching.  Don't start with a new coach and then never tell the old coach he/she is through.  Or, leave a balance due with the old coach.  Coaches are likely better friends with each other, then they will be with you.   Coaches have worked together for years sometimes, attend conferences together.  You and your daughter are another parent/child that passes through their rink door.     Word will get around, if you are difficult parent.   Coaches sometimes gravitate towards certain levels of skaters, and will "hand off" when the skater gets too high for them.   Sometimes, the coach just doesn't want the challenge of the pressure put on them by the parents of top skaters, so they prefer to teach intermediate students.       Skating moves can take years to master.  If your daughter doesn't get a move quickly, it is not reason to abruptly change coaches.   If so, I'd have gone through every coach at all the rinks in town!  The most important thing is that your daughter can understand the coach and the coach can tune into what she is doing wrong and give the right correction.   Learning something wrong is the worst thing a skater can do because it takes a trillion times more to unlearn the bad habit.   That's going to cause your daughter frustration and you alot of lesson money.    A young girl can do a single jump completely wrong because she's a twig, but she will not be able to do a double jump with wrong technique a year later when she grows. 

The second most important thing to a coach is that she is supportive.   Some kids need a tough coach, because they are lazy or wimp out.  It takes courage to skate.   Other kids need a super encouraging coach because they lack self-confidence or need a softer approach.   No kid needs a mentally abusive coach.   Keep your eyes and ears open, as to what the coach says and how she says it.  Coaches have to give criticism.  This is why mom & dads are not good coaches.  She needs mom & dad for unconditional love.   After videotaping and critiquing each element of my adult Bronze test, and going over stuff that needed my improvement over the rest of July . . . . my coach told me "good job" and it made my 45 year old heart.   

I think many skaters do the group lessons through learning the one-foot spins and single jumps (i.e. ISI Freestyle 6).  By the time they are in ISI 5/6 Freestyle, alot are doing both private and group lessons.  Some, if they've done the mini-competitions, will also have a private coach at doing three turns.   That's the best, if your wallet allows it.   At the point of flying spins and axels, then it's all private coaching and usually only on freestyle ice practices where only figure skaters are allowed.  Speaking of practice, she will also need to practice skating three to four times a week. It's better to go three, one hour sessions a week, then one, three hour session a week.   

At the end of each group lesson is a casual test where the teacher tests your daughter.  Like dance, they will not move a girl up if they think she's not ready.  They are not going to risk your daughter's safety.    Also, your local rink likely has small competitions where even the basic skills people can put together a program.  Most will hire a coach to help them choreograph a simple routine within the skater's level.  There are rules, like time limits and elements that must be in the program.  The coach has the know-how.   Then, that coach will work with the skater to master the program before the competition.   You can be upfront with the coach, tell her that you don't want to commit to a long time relationship with a coach at this point in your skater learning the sport, and are just asking for help with this one competition. You don't have to be a USFSA club member to do these competitions.  And, you don't have to have a fancy dress either.  A plainer skating dress is just fine.  And, you don't even have to do these mini-competitions either.   It's all up to you.

The USFSA/Club member is to test in a panel of 3 graded judges.  They are very picky that each move is done correctly.   People doing their "Pre-preliminary moves in the field" and "pre-preliminary freestyle" are on Youtube to give you an idea of the entry-level of USFSA.  If you or a coach thinks your daughter will be at pre-preliminary soon, then join the club.  Otherwise, save your money for ice time. There are alot of USFSA levels; pre preliminary, preliminary, pre juvenile, juvenile, etc.   Here is a decent discussion of the levels, http://www.iceskatesnblades.com/USFSA___ISI_Test_Levels.html  Meanwhile, I'm sure that those in the club will let you borrow the Skating magazine.   I really love it when it comes in the mail. 

Skating is the ultimate sport. It combines strength, balance, grace, aerobic, coordination and artistry.  It is also very hard mentally and physically.  In dance, you don't do a solo in your first year.    In skating, they push for solo early on.  USFSA testing is all done solo. That teaches self-reliance.  In the end, you can't really blame anyone but yourself if you did poorly.  Your whole team helps you arrive at the  competition (mom, dad, coach), but it's all on your shoulders when you step on the ice.   That's alot of pressure.  If you can survive figure skating, you can survive any profession.   And so, there are alot of girls skating.  Alot are good.  You have to go into this expecting her to learn more life skills and becoming extremely fit and healthy.  Few make it to the Olympics, just like in dance where few are going to become professional dancers. 

If she loves skating, let her do it.   When I was a kid and even now, I'm miserable person if I can't skate.  It's an adrenaline rush to sail across the ice.   Spinning and jumping are still highs for me, and I'm 45 years old.  My parents never had to drag me to the rink.  I had to drag them to get into the car.

There are ways to save money, and until she's Olympic level it does not have to be super expensive.  I take a half hour private lesson once every few weeks.     Group lessons usually have coupons for public skating.   Freestyle can be purchased in bulk, say 10 sessions for $100.  The super avid skaters buy unlimited freestyle sessions for a few hundred a month.    But, she's not at that level . . . yet.

[Mom2NewSkater]

Ok... you all have provided some great information.

So if I understand correctly, my daughter could compete in a basic skills competition without being a member of a figure skating club.  Correct?  The mom I know did mention this, but I was not clear on how she could compete if she wasn't a member.

I should throw out there that I live in WV.  While I love it here, we are limited on resources when it comes to some things.  It seems figure skating is one of them.  I only know of one ice arena around here.  And if I understand correctly there are only three fully qualified coaches.  One of those is also the director of skating at the ice arena, so she oversees the group basic skills classes.  As you can see we are pretty limited. 

TreSk8sAZ I don't think she is bored with group lessons.  She's only had two six week group lessons.  I have actually seen a competitiveness during the group lessons that I have never seen before.  I don't mean competitive in a bad way.  I mean most things she's done she hasn't really pushed herself, but I see it with skating.  Now I do think there are times when they are doing something across the ice and she gets to the other side way before the others.  Then she has to stand there and wait, which I don't think she likes.  I do believe she could master and test the skills she is learning now at a faster pace, but I could be wrong about that.

One of the biggest reasons I was thinking private lessons is because of her age.  Isn't she really getting a late start?  I mean we won't know for some time if she will want to compete or even be good enough to do so, but if she does want to and is good enough, I want her to have what she needs.  I feel like because she is eight, almost nine, she is way behind the curve.

I don't think there are any competitions in our area/at our rink.  The FSC does have test sessions twice a year.  I will find out when and try to take my daughter and go.  I'll also see what I can find out about competitions that we would be able to drive to in order to be able to see what it is about.

Right now I do want my daughter to have fun and try to figure out if this is something she wants to take to the next level.  At the same time I want to try to make sure I am providing her with what she will need to be able to move to the next level if she decides that is what she wants.  Does that make sense?

Honestly the thought of Olympics never entered my mind realistically.  Maybe I am too much of a realist, but I know very few make it to the top level of anything.  That doesn't mean one shouldn't try and always do their best.  The fact is that to be at the top level you not only have to work hard and be completely dedicated, but you have to have some natural talent and the genetics too.  That isn't to say that hard work and dedication won't take you far.  I completely believe you should work hard at anything you do, otherwise, why do it.

Thanks so much for the input and advice!!!  I'm going to look at some of the things you all suggested and will continue to check in.

[blue111moon]

Many USFS Basic Skills programs are run by or under the umbrella of the local club so as long as your daughter is registered with USFS, she's a member.  That's a question to ask the skating director:  what program are they running and are all the skaters automatically registered (they should be; and you should get a membership card to prove that.)

My personal feeling, as a skating director and coach, is that your daughter should stay in group lessons as long they are productive and she's having fun and happy to be learning new things.  It's really not unusual for skaters to breeze through the first few levels of Basic Skills; they're designed to be passed quickly as encouragement tests.  I'd wait on private lessons until she gets stuck on a skill or has progressed to the point that the group lessons aren't challenging enough for her. 

I wouldn't rush into private lessons at this point.  I don't mean to sound discouraging and I don't know your daughter at all, but over the last 20+ years that I've been teaching, I've seen a lot of kids start out whizzing through the first levels and loving skating - until they hit a level or a skill that's hard and takes a lot practise to master or they take some hard falls and get frightened and then suddenly it's not fun anymore and they don't want to skate.  There's no sense investing a lot of money in the first couple years or so until she's sure this is something that she will continue to enjoy regardless of how far or how fast she progresses.

And as far as progressing is concerned, IMO, at the lower levels, practice time is far more important for developing skills than lessons.  Spend the money you'd put into private lessons on extra ice time and let your skater practice what she's learned in the lessons without a coach standing over her every minute.  Learning how to practice independently is a terrific skill to learn right away and will help tons when she does progress to private lessons.  Even just skating laps around the rink on a public session will help.

And age is irrelevant.  Plenty of kids start at 7 and 8 and do just fine.  One thing you might want to discuss with her is that "faster isn't always better."  Just because she's the first one across the ice, it doesn't mean she's better than everyone else; it means that she has a little more time to THINK about the skills and focus on doing them correctly while the others are struggling.  She could use the waiting time to go over the steps the coach has talked about.    The advantage of being a little older is that she can understand instructions better than a 4 or 5 year old will.   

The important thing to remember and to emphasize is that skating is a fun activity that's good exercise and a constant challenge.  There's always something new to learn - some things are more fun to learn than others but everything is a part of the sport and the skills helps and build on each other.

USFigure Skating's website has a link to a lot of information for parents on it.  If that's the program your rink runs, then it's well worth checking out. 

[Mom2NewSkater]

So it sound like for the most part that private lessons aren't the recommendation at this point?

We had told her that she had to choose between dance and skating with the thought of private skating lessons.  We figured doing dance and privates wouldn't leave her a lot of time during the week for other things, because she is also in a youth show choir that she does not want to give up.  It almost seems we should just let her stay in dance for now, do the group lessons and look into privates a bit later.  IDK.

[Neverdull44]

I don't think she should stop ballet dancing.  Ballet is the most important.   Many great skaters take ballet, but only begin in when they get at a higher level.  Before then, they struggle with grace and carriage.   Skating instructors have 'off ice" ballet to students.  However, I like going to a dance school for my ballet.  It's alot warmer and my muscles like it better.    Even if it's one ballet class a week, I think it will serve her very well.   Skaters forget to stretch, but ballet instruction is also going to keep her limber which will help to lesson her chance of injury on the ice.  Ice skating is more fun to me because i have the whole rink, whereas the bar I only have my little area.   However, dance is more social then skating.   So, it's a nice get-away from the rink.   Next important would be jazz, because it teaches musicality.  Then, acro dance for limberness and core strength. 

I agree with the above poster.   I learned to skate with a lesson a week.  First, it was just a group lesson a week.  I did just this through learning my single loop jump.   Until she's doing the trickier stuff, like one foot spins and single jumps, there is no need for a private lesson.    When I got into the official USFSA test track, I had one figures (old moves) private lesson and one freestyle private lesson a week.  I surely did not have a coach every time I stepped on the ice.  Rather, I had 4 or 5 days on the ice between lessons where I learned to figure things out.  I also had a notebook to help me remember what my coach wanted me to work on.  Time on the ice is the most important.  Then, when I got back to my private coach, she could see an improvement.

Eight is perfect age to start. Just a few days a week with skating & dance, ok?  Don't tire her out.  Skating rinks are usually open alot on the weekends.  If she's just learning the basics, she should be fine in the public sessions on the weekend.  It's ice time.    Schoolwork is the most important.  I say this because my daughter was on a competition dance team in elementary school.  She went to school all day, and then did 6 hours of dance a week on school nights, and many Spring weekends in competition around our state.  Every night, we were at the dance school.  She didn't have down time to play with friends or watch tv.    She was tired and her school grades were not great.   She hit 6th grade and stopped dancing.  She was burned out.   By the middle of the 6th grade, she started making Honor Roll.  She said to me one morning, "Mom, I'm not too tired to pay attention in school."  She goes to the skating rink with me about twice a week. 

Keep everything in moderation.   Like a page in the book, you have to allow for "white area" to rest your eyes.  Every moment can't be filled to the brink.  Those books with tiny print and tiny margins are not fun to read, and cause the reader stress.  And, so does a child who is faced with too much.     Moderation can be hard for skaters who find the sport addicting.

[Doubletoe]

Group lessons are great as long as she is still learning and improving.  I agree that they are a great way for her to experience different coaches' teaching styles first hand so you will both have an idea of which coach might be best for her once she's done with the group classes.  I also agree that group classes are great incentive for her to master certain skills because there are others she in the class who can provide her with a little friendly rivalry. 

[icedancer]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but have you looked at the US Figure Skating website?  There is a tab in the middle of the home page labelled "Parents" and there are lots of the topics you are interested in that are covered:

http://www.usfigureskating.org/default.asp

I have seen a lot of skating parents at the level of your daughter with similar questions to yours over the years.  It is confusing and some of the people that try to guide you don't really understand the sequence of these things either.  I agree with the people on this board that say the more practice time and the more "noodling around" your daughter can do at this point is best.  Some skaters need more one-on-one and so a private coach may be appropriate - another thing to consider is a semi-private lesson with another skater so that there is some individual attention but maybe not so intense. 

The worst things that I see are a group of coaches who have somehow decided that the best thing for those starting out is half-hour lessons with 3 different coaches.  This may benefit the coaches but besides being overwhelmingly expensive and unnecessary, I haven't seen where this benefits the skaters much at all.

Time and fun on the ice are the most important thing at this point!

Oh and welcome to the crazy and sometimes complex world of figure skating!!