Off-ice exercises for hip turnout

[WaltzJump413]

Sorry to post another question...I seem to have a lot. 

I really have trouble with turning out my foot. I'm working on the T-stop position and really have trouble getting my back/stopping foot in the right place. (Turned out behind the front foot).

Are there any exercises I can do off-ice (that don't need too much equipment) that will "translate onto the ice" for turnout?

Thank you!

[Qarol]

I have obscene turnout. When I do outside mohawks, I'm basically in ballet 5th position. But it can be a problem sometimes in ice skating. I guess neither extreme is all that ideal.

But most don't. Back when I was in roller derby, a lot of girls struggled to get their hips to turn out for what they call sideways skating (think spread eagle but with bent knees). They would go up to the wall, bend their knees and try to turn out as much as they could, and press their knees against that wall to force the stretch a bit more. Not sure if that helps. The trainers told them to do it, so maybe it has helped some.

[WaltzJump413]

Thanks Qarol! I tried it a little, and it seems to help. 

[miraclegro]

I have NO turnout.  Used to get made fun of in school.  For me, most of it is in the hips.  How I had my babies, I'll never understand.  Anyway.  I've been skating about 15 years - and the more I do it and work on Moves in the Field, and other required things, such as the spiral sequence in Intermediat Movees in the Field, it has helped.  I may never get an Ina Bauer, or spread eagle, but two really good exercises are:
1) the Frog.  Place your body face down on the floor (preferably carpet), and spread legs open.  Keep pelvis on floor as much as possible.  It's okay to pull chest up some, just keep lower body pressed down.  Then while trying to keep legs pressed down, yet open, try to touch heels together.   Hold for 5-10 seconds each.  Or as long as comfortable.   

2) Sit up on floor with heels together, and hips open.  Gently try to press your hips down to stretch those hip flexor muscles.     

[icedancer]

For the T-stop try turning out just at the ankle or knee.

This question makes me realize why I've always like the Left T-stop (skating on right foot, t-stopping with Left foot as my left hip is more open than my right -

I can do a T-stop with my right foot but would prefer not to. Wondering if it has to do with that closed hip...
hmmm

[ONskater74]

Suggestions above are good. Ultimately turnout is dictated by the hips. In ballet the first rule is that "turnout comes from the hip" not the knee or ankle. Skating is not ballet, of course. I had a hard time with spread eagles, but I found that constant working on my turnout in ballet really opened up my hips for spread eagles. Anything to gently work those hip joints to soften up and release more is good.

[sarahspins]

Well I have very open hips and I prefer not to do T-stops at all, so there is always that

My personal experiences, turn out is only *part* of the equation.  The other half is strength, and it takes particular muscles to control turn out on the ice.  I don't struggle much with mohawks or chocktaws, but I still can't hold an outside spread eagle very long because I'm just not strong enough to HOLD that position.  Much like with spirals, it's not all about flexibility, there is a strength component as well.

[WaltzJump413]

Thank you very much miraclegro, ice dancer, ONskater, and sarahspins for your suggestions!

icedancer--Wow, I didn't know anyone else liked the left T-stop! 

[Doubletoe]

Turnout is a combination of (a) groin muscle flexibility and (b) hip joint placement.
I agree with those who have suggested the butterfly stretch, the frog stretch and plies against the boards (which I always do before doing any spread eagles or Ina Bauers).  If doing these stretches regularly doesn't enable you to turn your feet out with your knees facing out in the same direction as your feet, then your hip joints are probably just located more to the inside than the outside. That means you will not achieve turnout from your hips and will only damage your knees if you force it.  It is a structural issue and no amount of stretching will fix it, so if your hips don't turn out after a reasonable amount of stretching, just work on things you CAN achieve with stretching and strengthening (spirals, hydroblades, etc).

[WaltzJump413]

Thanks, Doubletoe!

I think my flexibility has improved--but I definitely still need work. Things feel very different on the ice than they do off...

[Willowway]

Please, please don't force any turnout from the knee - it is very easy to do real harm to your knees that way. As stated above, turnout comes from the hip - groin muscle stretch is the only thing you can control (hip placement is what it is) so concentrate on that.  And there have been lots of good exercise suggestions in that regard above.

There is one thing I learned from ballet that surprised me in terms of turnout. There is a set of muscles to the rear inside of your upper leg (on the right leg, think knee is 12 o'clock and going clockwise to the outside, these muscles are around 7 to 8 o'clock - opposite for left) and I don't remember the names. But if you try concentrating on and using those muscle when you attempt to turn out, it really does help - you'll get an extra degree or two. And your knees just follow, they don't lead.

[WaltzJump413]

Thanks for your help, Willowway!

[kiwiskater]

Turn out is also affected by the glutes. My physio has a favourite we work on together 'the clam' - google it, there are heaps of sites talking about it. We now work on a clam with resistance, maybe you might want to think about doing a few sessions with a trainer/pilates instructor so that you get correct technique and then you can work on it from home

[Doubletoe]

That's true.  You need to squeeze your butt cheeks together and tuck your butt under you.

[WaltzJump413]

I didn't see these last posts until now--thank you!