To notch or not to notch?

[alejeather]

I'm looking at SP Teri Super Teris for my next pair of boots. I have the option of getting a flex notch or not. As far as I understand it, these are the pros and cons. These are just my impressions and I'm looking for additional pros or cons or even corrections to my assumptions about the pros and cons!

Pros: Improved bend and point particularly for dance, may be easier to break in
Cons: Adds to the cost of the boot, may be faster to break down

How much do they really help for dance? Because I'm inclined to skip them.

Any input is greatly appreciated!

[sarahspins]

My experience is that make ALL the difference as far as ankle bend and ease of break in goes.  I don't personally subscribe to the "faster break down" theory - if anything, the opposite is true since without the notches you are forcing the leather to bend even more to get the ankle bend you want.  Notches also encourage any creases to develop in appropriate places, rather than lower down on the ankle which will ultimately compromise lateral stability.

They do nothing for toe point though - the only thing that really makes a difference there is the height (or softness) of the back of the boot.

[CaraSkates]

I've had flex notches on my last four pairs of boots and didn't feel it lead to them breaking down faster - all boots lasted 1-2.5 years with heavy skating (5-6 days per week). I knew the 1 year pair would only last that long when I bought it - all other three pairs lasted 2.5 years which seems to be my average for boots. It's also only taken me about 1-2 weeks to completely break in the boots - and I'm jumping and spinning pretty much right away.

As far as toe point - I wear Riedell 2010s right now and LOVE the low, padded back for comfort and toe point. I'm on my second pair and plan on a 3rd.

[alejeather]

My experience is that make ALL the difference as far as ankle bend and ease of break in goes.  I don't personally subscribe to the "faster break down" theory - if anything, the opposite is true since without the notches you are forcing the leather to bend even more to get the ankle bend you want.  Notches also encourage any creases to develop in appropriate places, rather than lower down on the ankle which will ultimately compromise lateral stability.

They do nothing for toe point though - the only thing that really makes a difference there is the height (or softness) of the back of the boot.

That all makes a lot of sense, thank you.

[irenar5]

My experience is that make ALL the difference as far as ankle bend and ease of break in goes.  I don't personally subscribe to the "faster break down" theory - if anything, the opposite is true since without the notches you are forcing the leather to bend even more to get the ankle bend you want.  Notches also encourage any creases to develop in appropriate places, rather than lower down on the ankle which will ultimately compromise lateral stability.

They do nothing for toe point though - the only thing that really makes a difference there is the height (or softness) of the back of the boot.

What she said:-

Some dance boots even have double notches!

[sarahspins]

My coach's boots have three notches (what Harlick calls a "double loop" notch) and she doesn't even do dance

[alejeather]

Hmm, so maybe skipping the notches would be a penny wise, pound foolish kind of move

They do seem to be incredibly common on most boots these days. I've never had boots without them so I have nothing to compare it with. Didn't know if it was actually useful or more of a gimmick.

[CrossStroke]

To notch and I won't repeat all the already-listed pros (no cons experienced here).
Just make sure the notches are placed in the correct spot for you.  Since I have a very high instep, in stock boots the notches are always in the wrong place for me.  In my custom Klings, notches did make all the difference!

[alejeather]

Just make sure the notches are placed in the correct spot for you.  Since I have a very high instep, in stock boots the notches are always in the wrong place for me.  In my custom Klings, notches did make all the difference!

Oh dear. That's a whole 'nother can of worms! How would I know where they should put the notches? I haven't had any problem with the placement on my current boots, which were stock, so I'm hoping this wouldn't be a problem.

[sampaguita]

Notch!

[SynchKat]

I just had to check my skates.  No notches here.  I dance and bend low.  I say just go with what you think you would feel most comfortable with. 

[CrossStroke]

Oh dear. That's a whole 'nother can of worms! How would I know where they should put the notches? I haven't had any problem with the placement on my current boots, which were stock, so I'm hoping this wouldn't be a problem.

It is not at all something you need to worry about with a reputable fitter.  I guess I should have phrased differently my first reply: in stock boots, the notches did nothing for me, because they were not in correct place for my higher than average instep.  In custom boots, I found notches to be very helpful.

[amy1984]

I have had both.  I can tell you I did not notice and iota of difference.  Nadda.  Just go with what feels best.

[FigureSpins]

I've had both notchless and notched skates.  The difference is that the notchless skates will develop a crease through normal break in exactly where the notch would be made.  So, I think the notch is a good design feature. 

The notch does provide a little (very little) more ankle/knee flexibility during break in as compared to the notchless skates.  Once they're broken in, there's no difference in usage, but the notched skates will show breakdown creases more obviously since they don't have the flex crease to confuse the issue.

My new skates are SP-Teri Super Teri's with two modifications: split width and a flex notch.  So far, so good.

Many dancers choose scallops, which are rounded notches with eyelets designed to provide even more ankle flex.

Notch:
http://www.spteri.com/TeriDance_image.htm

Scallops:
http://www.klingbeilusa.com/

[alejeather]

Once they're broken in, there's no difference in usage, but the notched skates will show breakdown creases more obviously since they don't have the flex crease to confuse the issue.

Which will show the creases more obviously? Notched or notchless?

My new skates are SP-Teri Super Teri's with two modifications: split width and a flex notch.  So far, so good.

I noticed in the show off your skates thread that you'd gotten these skates recently and I'd love to know your thoughts on them so far. Have you ever had them before? What made you choose them versus another brand or model? This is perhaps another topic or more appropriate for a PM, but I'm very interested!

[FigureSpins]

The unnotched skates will develop a flex crease, which is obvious.  The notched skates won't develop that crease.  (Assuming the stock boot fits properly) 

Nothing stops breakdown creases from showing, but if you don't have a flex notch, they'll be less noticeable.  Think about it: you get notchless skates and they develop creases during break-in.  You continue using them for some time and they start to develop breakdown creases.  How can you tell the difference between one type and another? It's difficult to know which is which.  The break-in creases will be from the edge of the boot where the throat covers the tongue and a little further back.  A breakdown crease will appear between the ankle and the stitching around the eyelet/hook throat.  However, skates can break down skates without showing a single crease if you're not a knee-bender.  Another note: if the skates are too big/wide, they can develop huge creases from the edge of the boot back past the ankle in no time flat.  This is especially true of vinyl skates.

I noticed in the show off your skates thread that you'd gotten these skates recently and I'd love to know your thoughts on them so far. Have you ever had them before? What made you choose them versus another brand or model? This is perhaps another topic or more appropriate for a PM, but I'm very interested!

Rather than hijack this thread, I started a new topic.

[alejeather]

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

My current boots are starting to crease pretty seriously around the notches, but I think that is from breakdown, not from improper fit.

[FigureSpins]

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

My current boots are starting to crease pretty seriously around the notches, but I think that is from breakdown, not from improper fit.

If you can bend the top of the boot easily over at the ankle, then the leather has started to break down and lose support.  Sometimes, there are no creases to show this weakness, especially in skaters who don't bend their knees deeply.

[alejeather]

I placed my order! I ended up going with the KT-2 rather than the Super Teri, and the KT-2 comes standard with a flex notch. Thanks for the input, everyone!