Function or aesthetics? Skating techniques

[sampaguita]

One of the things I dislike about figure skating is that there has been no effort to "standardize" it. Of course, there are always many ways to do the same thing, and I think it would be nice to list ALL possible methods (same as in sports science -- there are many exercises to work the same muscle), and I find it really weird to find coaches all over contradicting each other.

Still, the basics of skating is physics, and the physics does not change. For example, to be on an edge, the ice has to exert a centripetal force on you (always pointing into the circle), and you have to lean your body accordingly to produce the reaction to that force (for the ice to push you into the circle, you have to push the ice out -- that's why the body always leans into the circle). That is the same for pretty much EVERY technique involving edges.

Since a skater is an extended object, we can't ignore where the arms and the legs go, because they do influence the physics. However, there are some techniques that I do find very weird. For example, in this site, (subscription needed)

http://icoachskating.com/joan-orvis-common-mistakes-for-forward-edges/

the coach mentions that the hands HAVE to be "parallel to the ice with palms down" when doing consecutive edges. I cannot, however, understand what the hands have to do in terms of the physics involved. Of course, the arms will have to pass as close as possible to the body (that's physics), but the hands -- what's the difference between having them parallel to the ice and having them at a more relaxed angle?

Is this function, or aesthetics? Do you also have other examples of techniques that don't seem to involve any real physics?

[AgnesNitt]

If the hands are palms down, the shoulders are in a neutral position. If the hands are palms up, the shoulder roll back just enough to be problematic.

[Clarice]

If the arms are parallel to the ice, they become an extension of the shoulder line, and the position of the shoulders is important when doing consecutive edges.

[nicklaszlo]

Still, the basics of skating is physics

And physiology.

[sampaguita]

If the hands are palms down, the shoulders are in a neutral position. If the hands are palms up, the shoulder roll back just enough to be problematic.

Nope, not talking about palms up vs. palms down here. I was wondering why it has to be parallel to the ice. That's not a neutral position, since the coach here is demonstrating it with the arms near the sides (so almost vertical). That would mean that the wrist is bent at an almost 90 deg angle, which is not easy to maintain...

[Doubletoe]

I agree that you are leaving physiology out of the equation.  Our muscles and nerves are connected in such a way that something like keeping the hands parallel to the ice (or, as my coach used to say, "Press your palms down") actually helps provide stability and control.  Yes, I think it's mostly a shoulder thing.

Some things are function and some are aesthetic, but I think most are both.  For example, when I learned consecutive back outside 3-turns, I had a hard time controlling them.  My coach had told me to keep my free leg extended in front of me with toes pointed, but I had never questioned why; I'd just assumed it was aesthetic.  Then a different coach told me, "Point those toes really hard" and when I did, I suddenly got more control over the turn.  That's because the tension from pointing my toes translated to the entire free leg, which stayed locked in place when I really pointed my toes instead of swinging out.  Another example is holding your chin up and pointing the toes of your free foot during a spiral.  It looks better, but it also helps you raise your free leg higher without catching your toepick and doing a face plant.

[Query]

Watch high level competitive skating on TV. For the most part, you won't see the hands left there.

Thing of everything you learn in LTS as an exercise.

Figure skating is dance. It isn't meant to be the most natural or efficient way to move. Hockey and speed skaters might move "better", from a physics perspective. If you can hold your arms in place and still balance, it shows control.

[Doubletoe]

If you can hold your arms in place and still balance, it shows control.

When doing a figure skating maneuver (especially turns), it's sort of the opposite:  If you can execute some sort of arm movement at the same time, *that* shows a lot of control, LOL!

[sarahspins]

If you can execute some sort of arm movement at the same time, *that* shows a lot of control, LOL!

Well I would hope that would be planned and repeatable arm movement

[techskater]

When doing a figure skating maneuver (especially turns), it's sort of the opposite:  If you can execute some sort of arm movement at the same time, *that* shows a lot of control, LOL!

And don't forget to swat at the imaginary bees!  LOL!

[Sk8tmum]

And do a nice face wipe too...  The parallel hands is also aesthetics. It looks nicer, and it helps avoid the jazz hands look. Unless you want jazz hands because you're doing a jazz routine of course...

[Query]

Oh come on guys. You know what I meant. 

If you swing arms around wildly, and use that swing to create a turn, any figure skating coach will complain. But if you do things with hands and arms and maybe legs and feet that have nothing to do with the turn, that demonstrates additional control and artistry.

(Even a hockey coach might complain about the first way - because it warns your opponent what you are going to do.)

All kinds of performance dancers are taught "isolation" exercises, where just one or a very few joints are moved, and everything else stays still. Sometimes they are incorporated into the dance itself, sometimes they are just exercises. Either way, they demonstrates mastery.

I think of the arms out to the side, hands down, no motion pose in the same way. It's boring to watch, to be sure. So you don't want to see that kind of performance.

But if you can create a turn using nothing but a barely detectable motion between your shoulder blade and your shoulder, or a slight forward or backwards displacement of your leg bone from the center of the hip joint, or a slight downwards and even more slight sideways pressure on one side of the blade that creates a little friction on that side of the blade, that subtlety is good. True refinement.

On the other hand, if you wildly swing your arm(s) or leg(s) around to create the turn, or use a huge torso twist - that's very easy and natural, and are the main efficient ways your body is designed to create such turns, so u]anyone[/u] can do that. Which makes it vulgar, uncouth.

Figure skating is not supposed to be for the vulgar masses. You want the refined result of countless hours of practice, demonstrating that you are an upper class individual with endless hours of leisure time to devote to the art of moving in a totally unnatural way.

[sampaguita]

Figure skating is not supposed to be for the vulgar masses. You want the refined result of countless hours of practice, demonstrating that you are an upper class individual with endless hours of leisure time to devote to the art of moving in a totally unnatural way.

lol!

But yeah, speaking of hockey -- for me, the way they move is totally unrefined. But hey, they move fast. And they are EFFICIENT.