Artificial Ice Rink

[FigureSpins]

Our family went to check out a holiday light show tonight and at "Santa's Village" they had an indoor, artificial ice rink.  We thought it would be real ice, so we all brought our skates but decided it wasn't worth risking our freshly-sharpened blades just for the Fake Ice experience.

The surface was made up of white-colored, interlocking tiles about 4'x4'.  It was a good-sized rink for a temporary structure.  We snuck toes under the cloth barrier and found that there was some sort of oil or lubricant on the tiles.  DD (the food guru) said it was Pam, lol.  There was a little boy splatting left and right in really loose skates.  He had spots all over his clothes.

The surface was gouged with skate marks and holes.  I guess blade toes and heels make dents that can't be repaired.  Maybe they have some sort of resurfacing machine that can plane them smooth again?  No sign of spins or turns anywhere I looked, not even the center. 

The skaters moved in slow, jerky movements - took a lot of strength to push and glide, according to one skater.  She did okay stroking, but she told me that ice is much easier.  I didn't ask if she was a figure skater, but I think she was probably a recreational or pond skater.

That's my report.  I'm glad we didn't skate, but now we all want to go to an outdoor seasonal rink.  There are a few around here, so I'll have to do some detective work to winnow out the artificial rinks from the real ice.

[Sierra]

Don't really understand the whole synthetic ice thing. Why use it when it destroys blades? Why use it when you're exhausted after five minutes from pushing, er, skating? I would not take my clothes near Pam, either. It's one of those things that sound like a great invention but is really more money/work than it's worth.

It's a shame that cruise ships and ice shows use synthetic. Poor show skaters, and when I found out that cruises use synthetic- well, it crushed my hope of going on a cruise with ice skating. (Probably wouldn't want to be jumping in the middle of a big wave, either- I went on a cruise last January and would occasionally fall into walls due to the boat rocking.)

A couple weeks ago I stepped quickly off the ice and slipped on the rubber mat because there was a puddle and my blade just kept sliding like it would on ice. I noticed the blade felt a bit dull afterward (they were already getting dull, however, and I'd been planning to sharpen them anyway). I imagine that's sorta what synthetic is like. If I'd done that while stepping onto the ice, I'd have slid so fast I'd end up on my head.

[katz in boots]

It's a shame that cruise ships and ice shows use synthetic. Poor show skaters, and when I found out that cruises use synthetic- well, it crushed my hope of going on a cruise with ice skating.

Some cruise ships do have real ice. A friend of mind went on one a few weeks ago that had one.  She took her skates & loved it.

On synthetic ice, sounds like the rink in question here used the silicon gel stuff. There are some that don't need this, apparently.  The gel can be somehow adjusted for slipperiness at least the guy running one at our local agricultural show said he could make it more slippery for the figure skaters.

Meh, I have enough problems re ice surfacing without worrying about what the gel is like today !   

[Sk8tmum]

We've used artificial ice; it didn't require any form of "gel" and it was in very good shape. My 3 were able to skate on it in relative ease - and it didn't harm their blades in any manner we were able to note. Took a few minutes of adaptation, that's all. It's nothing like a rubber mat with a puddle on it.

I imagine that there are degrees of quality and degrees of maintenance.  The same argument could be made for public skating ice that's badly surfaced, pitted and rough: that certainly is hard to skate on, and definitely will ruin the grind on a pair of skates at a fair rate.

[FigureSpins]

One of my skating students takes a cruise every year or two with her family.  They always book cruise ships with REAL ice so the girl can show her grandparents her latest routine or spin/jump.  Not all cruise ships are artificial ice.

This rink was definitely not a gel surface- the floor was made of firm plastic interlocking tiles.  I could see (and feel) the beads of silicon spray as well as the gouges and chips.

Why would someone put up a synthetic ice rink?  To make money.  If it's a seasonal rink such as this one, it's only going to be used for a few weeks, so why bother with the special setup and maintenance of a real ice rink?  They would have to arrange for a cooling system to be laid, water and electricity to be hooked up, the ice prep takes several days (compared to hours) and then you have to provide resurfacing throughout the usage period.  Ice rinks require electricity to keep the ice frozen and the air conditioned.  This rink looked like they didn't have to do any maintenance other than (maybe) spraying the lubricant.

The rink has to provide rentals (which is a form of income), but if they become dull, what else is new?  Few real-ice rinks sharpen rentals regularly, a synthetic ice rink wouldn't worry about it, either.  If your own blades get dull, that doesn't cost them anything.

From a business perspective, the novelty synthetic ice rinks are a good investment.
From a sport perspective, they don't bring or retain skaters.

[Query]

The best way to make artificial ice

1. Spread a thin layer of pure liquid water.
2. Reduce temperature of same.
3. Grind away surface roughness.
4. Repeat.

I claim the rink you are talking about doesn't have artificial ice.

It has fake ice!

Fake ice helps keep the pro shop in business: sharpening and new blades.

[Sierra]

Oh, goody. So some ships do have real ice

In relation to the rubber mat- I meant that it slid slower than real ice would & slightly dulled my blade. I didn't mean actually skating around on a rubber mat

Imagine what the rentals are like for synthetic rinks, then. They're probably near flat. Only the increased grippiness of synthetic would save the public skaters.

Family in Colorado has seen synthetic rinks, plus when I was at a theme park with aunt & cousins they noticed the outdoor rink, and wondered how they kept it cold (this was in florida). I'm always having to explain- it's synthetic, made out of some sort of plastic, and it'll EAT my blades if I step on it..

re:sk8tmum, what kind of blades do they have? I wonder if maybe Paramounts/Ultimas are too hard to be affected by synthetic? Because everything else I've read says that synthetic dulls blades in one session.

[FigureSpins]

Query, you can call it anything you want.  As Wikipedia points out, the term "artificial" can be used for either manufactured/man-made ice or synthetic ice.  FWIW, the plastic-surface used for skating is often called "synthetic" or "artificial" ice in the trade, with "synthetic" being the preferred term.

Skate@Delaware described her experiences with synthetic ice skating on the old board:
http://skating.zachariahs.com/skatingforums-onice/www.skatingforums.com/archive/index.php/t-22571.html

A few other related threads from the archives:

http://skating.zachariahs.com/skatingforums-onice/www.skatingforums.com/archive/index.php/t-11317.html

http://skating.zachariahs.com/skatingforums-onice/www.skatingforums.com/archive/index.php/t-17320.html


Apparently, the rink I checked out was a "EZ GLIDE" product - the jigsaw-puzzle squares looked just like the ones on the website. 
http://ezglide350.com/products.php

The PlastIce looks more like the smooth sheet someone else described.  It's also more expensive, which is why it's used at training facilities, not at Santa's Tourist Trap, lol.

[onedgeskating]

OOOO Good topic. I am a figure skater and a coach and I also have a synthetic rink so I can speak on both sizes of this. Just like with any product there are a couple really good ones on the market and a lot of really crappy ones. It wounds like you guys have experienced the bad ones.
The product we have is called the EZ Glide 350. We have had our rink for about 6 months now. I can say that yes blades do cut into the surface but it is very minimal. Anything you can do on traditional ice you can do on this brand of synthetic, yes even toe jumps. You get about 15-20 years of skate life on either side of these panels. Upkeep is virtually non exsistent. You apply the glide enhancer as needed which for our rink is a non toxic non staining product. If you fall it comes out in the wash very easily when water hits it.

I spend at least an hour a day skating or teaching on it. Myself and the skaters that use our rink regularly we are sharpening blades at the same frequency as we were when we had a traditional ice rink here in town before it closed. So it's roughly 30 hours of training time on it. If you skate on it without the enhancer you will need sharpenings more frequently or if it gets really dirty that will effect the lifespan of a sharpening to on it.

Skaters tend to push about 10% harder on our rink v/s real ice. So kids that skate on it regularly end up being stronger skaters. From what students have told me our synthetic is more forgiving the real ice and is also easier to learn jumps and spins on. From a coaches stand point it allows you to teach students to "place" their toepick on jumps rather then dealing with students who hammer the toepick in. You don't wind up with wholes like you do on real ice but smaller pin head size dimples. With EZ Glide 350 the more the surface is skated on the easier it is and the faster it becomes. It comes down to friction of the blade on the ice.

I can also say that seeing kids new to synthetic it takes them about 2 minutes to get use to it and then it's skating as usual. It's almost like their mind is saying just skate but their body is confused cause it looks like ice but it's not ice. Another reason it takes a couple minutes is that skating is easier when your blades are roughly the same temperature as the ice. It makes the resistance alot less. Why? I have no clue all I know is it just does.

Another thing to consider is price. real rinks are closing up shop right and left. A NHL size sheet of real ice runs about 2.5 5 Million per sheet of ice. A real rink has a monthly electric bill of $5,000 - $7,000 a month. We all have heard the reports on air quality from Zamboni emissions. With synthetic you don't have those issues. If someone puts in a NHL size synthetic you can put in the same size facility for under $450,000 So rink owners aren't behind the 8 ball as bad from the time they open. Nothing will ever replace ice 100% but the 350 surface is currently the closest thing on the market. Our closest traditional rink is over 2 hrs away. I love our sheet and prefer to teach at our rink then traditional ice any day.

Just remember that EZ Glide 350 is the Porche of synthetic ice. Unfortunately there are a lot of rusted out VW Bugs on the market. I'm sorry most of you have the experience you did. Not all products are that way.

[Query]

Another thing to consider is price. real rinks are closing up shop right and left. A NHL size sheet of real ice runs about 2.5 5 Million per sheet of ice. A real rink has a monthly electric bill of $5,000 - $7,000 a month.

The best run rink near me (suburban Washington, DC, which is a fairly warm climate, but isn't the deep south) estimated electric costs (compressors, lights, distillers [I think], de-humidifiers, and miscellaneous) at a little under $700/month.

But they do a lot of maintenance, and replace compressor motors every few years. I've been told about $1000/month electrical costs is more typical for my area.

Maybe electricity costs vary a lot by climate?

Electricity is a small part of the picture. There is a lot of labor involved in running any public facility, and all the ice associated machinery needs a lot of maintenance. Total expenditures seem to be about $900,000/year - and they only have a 10 month season.

I looked up a few other government run rinks. Around $1,000,000/year/ice sheet seems to be typical operating costs. On a rink that is old enough they aren't talking construction cost debt.

Here is another proposed rink budget, from Pasedena, CA

http://www.eewna.org/ice_rinks/FinanceComm_090713/icerink_090713_FinanceComm_Staff_PPT.pdf

If I read that very complicated document correctly, they assume much lower operating costs (are they optimistic?)- but one heck of a construction cost and debt service.

---

I'm very confused that operating costs could be so high!

Can costs be this high for private (real ice) rinks too?

It's easy to see how "artificial" ice rinks are attractive to budget managers.

If someone invents a moderately priced artificial ice that works as well as the real thing, real ice rinks won't stand a chance.

[Skate@Delaware]

Wow, $700/month for utilities...oh to live in the Balto region again! Here in hicksville, the rink pays over $2,000/month in electricity, zamboni fuel and other associated fees (in the winter, it rises in warmer months). No wonder they push for hockey! I think electricity cost also depends on region, population, competition, etc.

Unfortunately, they've pretty much packed up the synthetic surface and only tote 1/2 of it to off-site areas for shows. That equates to 10x15' of skating surface instead of a 15x20' surface.  It was one of the earlier types, hard to skate on, ruins blades, etc...but great for building up those muscles!

[icefrog]

Does the fake ice make the same "rip" sound when you hit a good edge as real ice? I think I would miss that sound.

[Skate@Delaware]

Does the fake ice make the same "rip" sound when you hit a good edge as real ice? I think I would miss that sound.

no....it doesn't.  It is rather loud & clunky sounding (think pointe shoes on a hollow wooden floor and you'll get the drift). Rather noisy.  Spinning is quiet, just a slight scraping noise.

[4711]

has anybody skated on that stuff?

I remember vaguely 25 years ago they showed it off in one sports show. The 'pro' skaters gave it pretty good reviews.

I am wondering if that could be a seasonal alternative to real frozen water....

[Skittl1321]

One of the coaches at our rink is opening an artifical ice rink in his home town (he commutes about 100 miles to our rink) because the skaters there have lost their ice. 

I'm wary how well it will do.  I've heard it is very hard to skate on, because it takes so much push (he touts this as a training exercise- you'll skate faster and jump higher on real ice).  However, it is suitable for even toe jumps.    The prices they are going to charge are per hour for public ice are about what we pay for the entire public ice session 4-8 hours.  I imagine a lot of this is because there is a lot of initial investment gto recoup.
But yes, definetly an available alternative.

[Willowway]

Apparently it just rips the heck out of blades - chews them up. You need to sharpen very often.

[Clarice]

As luck would have it, the coach in question also sharpens skates.

[PinkLaces]

There was some of the fake ice put in a rink that I used to skate at. It was put in at on off ice training area and mostly used for LTS. 

[Skittl1321]

It was put in at on off ice training area and mostly used for LTS.

How did that go?  Seems like it would be frustrating to learn on, since it is a more difficult surface.
Or did the fact that it isn't cold help them (some kids hate being cold).  I've heard falling hurts more on it, due to lack of 'slide'.

[ONskater74]

I priced out a 40' x 80' rink (panels only) from a Canadian firm and they quoted me sixty thousand dollars. I would have to pour the slab, build the roof, do the install, pay freight for the tiles.

I thanked them very much for the quote

[4711]

I priced out a 40' x 80' rink (panels only) from a Canadian firm and they quoted me sixty thousand dollars. I would have to pour the slab, build the roof, do the install, pay freight for the tiles.

I thanked them very much for the quote

hmmm, would not be too bad if you had like an abandoned warehouse....
(and a really stuffed sock under your bed...)

[Mergen Tatara]

Reminds me of the con job I experienced in Las Vegas last year 

I was surfing the net in my hotel room when I came across an advert for outdoor skating outside the Venetian.  I thought, how cool, skating in the desert!  So I went there and bought a ticket.  Because the closed off entrance area was quite far, I couldn't tell whether the surface was real ice.  And the price came with proper skates.  The blades were new and relatively sharpened.

When I finally gained admittance and stepped on the "ice", I was aghast!!!  It was a plastic sheet.  From far, it looked like ice.  A Hispanic family with kids joined me on the "ice" and everyone was struggling.  There was so much friction that I could forget about making turns and spins.  The best I could do was a short spiral.  After time was up, and as I left, I told the counter staff, "If you wanna skate, go to a proper rink!!".  And they looked bemused.

US$14.95 gone.  I learnt a lesson.  Never believe in the outdoor skating hype in a place like Vegas.  I should've spent the money at the Las Vegas Ice Centre instead, in the vicinity of Rio & Palms casinos.