Sonja Henie -- role model?

[sampaguita]

I came across this video of Sonja Henie. Back then, there were no multi-rotation jumps, no complex footwork. In fact, I think that all the moves here are pretty basic -- 3-turns, mohawks, crossovers, edges. Sans the jumps and spins, this is a basic program whose elements are within the range of low-level skaters (like me, lol!).

She can run on her toepicks really fast. I know that her upright spins are topnotch (I hate the positions, but the centering and speed are impeccable). However, what really puzzles me is how she glides on the ice that fast. Her posture isn't very good (by today's standards), and so are her crossovers (not a lot of underpush there, it seems). So how does she move as quickly and as lightly as she does? Does she have good edges? I also see her toe pushing in some parts, too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sjnfkEOpsE

[sarahspins]

However, what really puzzles me is how she glides on the ice that fast. Her posture isn't very good (by today's standards), and so are her crossovers (not a lot of underpush there, it seems). So how does she move as quickly and as lightly as she does? Does she have good edges? I also see her toe pushing in some parts, too...

I think it's simply an illusion.. if you notice her ice coverage is really not as good as you would assume (she pretty much stays around the center circle for most of it except for when she gets on and at the very end), and I actually don't think she's skating as fast as it appears either, but her quick movements kind of food you into thinking she must be going faster than she is.

I remember as a young skater being baffled how skaters like Sonja Heine could have been "stars" because they were doing jumps that "any of us" could do.  The difference was that not everyone was doing them back then, partially because most rinks were seasonal and it was very difficult to train for any length of time.  That begin to change with refrigeration becoming more common to maintain sheets of ice year round, but even still, it took a while for skill levels to get as high as they are now.  Think about women like Peggy Flemming and Dorothy Hamill - neither of them even did triples in competition (I don't even think Peggy could do any - the 2A was her highest jump), but they were very successful in their time and everyone knows who they were even now.

[ChristyRN]

It appears to me that it is sped up.  Look at the spectators clapping in the background.

And did I see only one jump?

[nicklaszlo]

It appears to me that it is sped up.  Look at the spectators clapping in the background.

And did I see only one jump?

It looks like there are numerous edits.  Spins don't travel if they're the same few frames displayed over and over.  I think it is a compilation from several performances.

There is a clockwise lutz and a counterclockwise tuck axel.

Style has changed a bit since then.

[sampaguita]

It looks like there are numerous edits.  Spins don't travel if they're the same few frames displayed over and over.  I think it is a compilation from several performances.

I don't think the spins were THAT cheated. I checked the background for changes. Some of the audience were clapping fast, but there were some who were clapping at normal speed. I also saw one person clap near the end of the spin. I think the spins were real, though maybe sped up a little.

I think it's simply an illusion.. if you notice her ice coverage is really not as good as you would assume (she pretty much stays around the center circle for most of it except for when she gets on and at the very end), and I actually don't think she's skating as fast as it appears either, but her quick movements kind of food you into thinking she must be going faster than she is.

I replayed the video and I see what you mean! She basically stays in just half the rink, and that's not even an Olympic-sized one.

If we were to rate Sonja Henie here based on current USFS/ISI levels, what level will you pass her?

[hopskipjump]

If we were to rate Sonja Henie here based on current USFS/ISI levels, what level will you pass her?

I think that if she had today's training and equipment she would still have been a star at skating.

[blue111moon]

Isn't that a show program, though, rather than one of her actual winning competition ones?  Even today's top skaters water down their show programs and save their toughest elements for competition.

Henie epitomized the style of her era.  Styles have changed.  Rather than emulate her skating skills (or lack thereof), I think people would do better to focus on the skills that got her to the top of the podium: her drive, her fearlessness and her inovation. She did things that women of her era just didn't DO.  She changed the sport forever.  And that's a pretty decent legacy.

[sampaguita]

I  just read what I wrote on this thread and I realized I wasn't very clear on what I wanted to say. As I've kept on writing in other posts, I have this irrational desire to skate like elite skaters. I came across this video of Sonja Henie and found a program which I can realistically aim for (without the jumps/spins), but was wondering whether having her as a role model for skating skills would be good or not...

[Skittl1321]

How big were Olympic ice surfaces when she competed?  I recall seeing competitions where snow was falling onto the ice- so surely the"rinks" weren't as large as they are now, it would have been a pain to keep clear!  That could explain "poor ice coverage" (not to mention, if that wasn't a judged quality, why bother with it?)

[Skittl1321]

I came across this video of Sonja Henie and found a program which I can realistically aim for (without the jumps/spins), but was wondering whether having her as a role model for skating skills would be good or not...

She's not a bad role model, but she skated in a very different time. The qualities that are desirable for skating are different now- her posture, for example, wouldn't cut it today unless you were skating in a stylized role meant to evoke that time.  I'd aim to do skating skills wise what the elites are doing now, just on a different level of it.  Until you are elite, of course you won't look just like that- it doesn't mean you shouldn't try to point your toes, avoid a leg wrap, sink deep in the knees, use as few strokes as possible to gain speed, etc.

I'd find the ISU Program Components videos on youtube.  They do a great job of outlining what it means to have great skating skills.

And not to be rude, but I think for the majority of adult skaters- it is unrealistic to think you can skate as well as Sonja Henie.  Her control of the blade, due to figures, is pretty well unmatched.

[hopskipjump]

She does a lot of quick light running on her toepick.  That is really hard to do and not labor it.  My daughter was able to do it before breaking her ankle but now is it no longer a quick, easy movement.  She looks more like walking on tip toe vs rolling off the pick.  You can see hesitation. 

[Doubletoe]

She does have good speed, flow and edge quality, which comes from years of doing figures.  Unfortunately, her posture and unattractive arm positions are also a result of doing figures, which were all about the tracings you left on the ice, not how you looked while making them. But that's what "figure skating" started out as, and that's what it was still about when Sonia Henie was learning to skate.  You'll notice her spins are extremely centered, a testament to the emphasis on tracings.  It's possible that she looks a little faster than she really was just because the film was fewer frames per second than we are used to seeing nowadays.  The fewer the frames, the more sped up things look (remember old silent films and how jerky/sped up they looked?).