Pre-bronze FS Test Format

[alejeather]

I'm taking my Pre-bronze freeskate test in about a week and a half and I'm not certain of the format of the test. I know which elements are required and that there's no music, but when I asked my coach, she said that the judges would tell me what to do between elements. For example, they'd tell me to go do my two jumps, and then I'd skate back to them and they'd tell me to do my two foot spin and so on. But I've read on here about people putting together a "program" laying out the elements and from videos of tests I've seen, it doesn't look like testers go to the judges between elements.
I'm not sure my coach has had a student do this test before. I know she is not very familiar with it, because a few weeks ago, she thought that waltz, salchow, toe loop, half flip and half lutz were all required jumps for the test. I sent her the 2012-2013 rulebook with the requirements, but it doesn't really say anything about the format.

Worse comes to worst, when I present to the judges at the beginning of the test, I can ask them what they expect and then go do all the elements or come back in-between and just be prepared for either possibility. Thoughts?

[jjane45]

For my moves tests and pre bronze free, I had zero communication with the judges about what's next, just going by the order listed in the test book. I did mostly have eye contact with them between elements to make sure I can start the next one. Good luck, you'll do great

[alejeather]

So then you did it element by element? You didn't have a little program where you just skated between and did all the elements? You did one of your jumps then made eye contact and did the other, made eye contact, two foot spin, etc.?

[jjane45]

No choreo whatsoever, actually coach nearly forgot I haven't taken that test, and when I brought it up he said I will be fine.

I imagine practicing things in that specific order cannot hurt

[sarahspins]

When I did mine I just ran through the elements in the order on the test (I did my jumps, then spins, then crossovers and a spiral), I didn't go back to the judge for instructions, I only checked for acknowledgment (eye contact or a nod) that they were watching for the next element... pretty much I just kept skating in between each element, just watching the judge, when she stopped writing and looked at me again, I'd go to the next thing. 

Your coach is probably confusing the pre-bronze test with the pre-pre test.. all of those jumps ARE required for that one, but they're not for the pre-bronze.  You can do "any" two single or half revolution jumps.  Just do the ones that you are most comfortable with.

[Kim to the Max]

So then you did it element by element? You didn't have a little program where you just skated between and did all the elements? You did one of your jumps then made eye contact and did the other, made eye contact, two foot spin, etc.?

It depends on where you are at. For moves in particular, when I lived in Milwaukee as a kid, we waited until the lead judge nodded or gave us a signal that they were ready for the next element. Here in NY, you just keep going, whether the judges are ready or not. It was weird to me the first time I tested here. When I have kids test I tell them to stop, in their starting location, count to 10 and then start.

For the no-music freestyle (pre-pre or pre-bronze), here we have it as a simple "program" with no extras, just element, element, element. I don't remember how it was in Milwaukee.

[alejeather]

Your coach is probably confusing the pre-bronze test with the pre-pre test.. all of those jumps ARE required for that one, but they're not for the pre-bronze.  You can do "any" two single or half revolution jumps.  Just do the ones that you are most comfortable with.

Ah, yes. That makes sense. I was wondering where she'd gotten that idea from. We've started working on flip (which I'm landing) and lutz (which I'm not quite) and she said she was worried that I'd get used to doing the full rotation jump and accidentally do those on the test instead of the half jumps. That's when I realized that we weren't quite on the same page for the test
I plan on doing a waltz jump and a salchow for the test.

I'm going to familiarize myself with the order and make sure I skate through the elements in that order a few times each practice session until my test. Thanks, everybody, for the information!

[Skittl1321]

This varies by region.  Trust your coach about the format- because that will be the same as pre-pre (elements will not- you do not need all those jumps!)

For my test, I did not do a program, but I also did not talk to the judges.  I did an element, pausing for a second to look at the judge- who nodded at me, then I did another element.  She told me ahead of time order did not matter.

I think asking the judge what they expect is a great idea.  "Should I pause between my elements?"

[FigureSpins]

I tested Pre-Prel Free in NJ with a Gold-level judge.  She stood in a hockey box along one half of the ice.  I skated on that half, even though I had the whole rink to myself.  We went through the elements in order of her judging sheet and I did wait for her to say she was ready before starting the next element. 

Pre-Prel Free has specific jumps to be performed; Pre-Bronze does not, so I would think you'd have to reveal what you are going to perform.

USFSA Judges Test Forms: http://www.usfsa.org/Shell.asp?sid=20822

[sarahspins]

I would think you'd have to reveal what you are going to perform.

I would think that you shouldn't need to - if I judge can't tell at a glance what jump you did (or attempted to do) then perhaps it's not passable.

[FigureSpins]

I would think that you shouldn't need to - if I judge can't tell at a glance what jump you did (or attempted to do) then perhaps it's not passable.

I think it would make sense to identify the planned elements in advance, just to cut on the amount of writing the judge would have to do during the test. 

[TreSk8sAZ]

Pre-Prel Free has specific jumps to be performed; Pre-Bronze does not, so I would think you'd have to reveal what you are going to perform.

I have watched a number of Pre-Bronze freeskates, and have never seen anyone go to the judges and say "I'm going to do a salchow and a loop". IF the judges ask, then yes. Of course, each location and test is different, but unless asked I'm just not sure this is necessary.

I think asking the judge what they expect is a great idea.  "Should I pause between my elements?"

I generally do go over the judges at the beginning and introduce myself, or let them ask my name (just to make sure they have the right sheets) as is custom in my region. Sometimes they ask if I know the order, or if I would prefer they tell it to me. I think Skittl's idea is good - ask the judges their preference. Likely for pre-bronze you will only have one judge, so you can always ask if they prefer that you pause between elements. Or they may simply tell you right at the get go what they want.

[jjane45]

I have watched a number of Pre-Bronze freeskates, and have never seen anyone go to the judges and say "I'm going to do a salchow and a loop". IF the judges ask, then yes. Of course, each location and test is different, but unless asked I'm just not sure this is necessary.

Similarly, for bronze freestyle the judges have to identify on the spot what jumps and spins the skater chooses to perform in the program.

This actually makes me wonder at what levels do skaters start to submit the planned elements sheet to the test panel. Is it elite only?

[FigureSpins]

This actually makes me wonder at what levels do skaters start to submit the planned elements sheet to the test panel. Is it elite only?

The Planned Elements Sheet is for IJS competition events only, afaik.  It has nothing to do with USFSA testing.

http://www.usfsa.org/Shell.asp?cat=10&id=283&sid=35247

[PinkLaces]

I did PBM and PBF on the same day with one judge.  Asked her if she wanted me to wait between elements. She said no. Although I did wait for a nod between tests. Sort of sucked because I had one warm up for both tests. Plus side was no time to get nervous between tests.

My coach had me practice my elements in the order listed on paper. Every time I practiced for the test I did it that way. Really helped with the nerves on test day.

[Skittl1321]

I didn't tell the judge what jumps I was going to do for either my PB or my B test.

Like sarahspins said- if they couldn't tell it was meant to be a waltz jump or a toe loop (PB), or a loop (B), I probably shouldn't have passed the test.

Since the judge just wrote W-good or  L-UR, I don't think it matters for note taking.  These were different judges, years apart.

[Janie]

I basically have a "program" with no music and no connecting steps. Just skate element to element. My coach checked with someone pretty high up (she said) and said that the order in which you do the elements doesn't matter. I never thought of making eye contact in between each element though, I'll need to ask coach about that.

[nicklaszlo]

Since the judge just wrote W-good or  L-UR, I don't think it matters for note taking.

Some judges would call that verbose.

[nicklaszlo]

I can ask them what they expect and then go do all the elements or come back in-between and just be prepared for either possibility. Thoughts?

I've seen it both ways.  If the judge does not give you instructions, I'd just do all the elements in the book order to save the judge some time.

[jjane45]

I basically have a "program" with no music and no connecting steps. Just skate element to element. My coach checked with someone pretty high up (she said) and said that the order in which you do the elements doesn't matter. I never thought of making eye contact in between each element though, I'll need to ask coach about that.

Just curious, in what order do you skate the elements in this "program"? 

[Janie]

Just curious, in what order do you skate the elements in this "program"? 

Two foot spin, forward & backward crossovers, waltz jump, spiral, toe loop, one foot spin.
I hope I don't lose my head in the test and forget what I'm supposed to do next! I think it helps to have my so called "program", because I do each element in a certain place, so getting to that place sort of reminds me what's next. Or so I hope. We'll see soon enough if that's true lol.

[Skittl1321]

I'm sure you will be fine, but on this test, it is perfectly okay to skate to the judge and say "I'm sorry, but what element do I need to do next?"

[Janie]

I'm sure you will be fine, but on this test, it is perfectly okay to skate to the judge and say "I'm sorry, but what element do I need to do next?"

Thanks Skittl. My coach reassures me with the same thing, but I'm still nervous

[techskater]

The Planned Elements Sheet is for IJS competition events only, afaik.  It has nothing to do with USFSA testing.

http://www.usfsa.org/Shell.asp?cat=10&id=283&sid=35247

AND you don't have to necessarily do what's on your PPCS - people  change around programs once they've submitted them when things don't work

[LilJen]

Good luck!

My PB free was similar to what others have experienced. My coach and I decided on the elements (well, you can choose a couple of them) and practiced them in that order. When I was called for the test, the judge asked whether I knew the order of the elements, suggested I go element by element and look her way after finishing each, and she would nod when it was OK to move on to the next. Even at Silver MIF, the judges are still asking me "Do you know the order of the elements?"