Beginner Skate

[jaylipop]

I am completely new to ice skating and know absolutely nothing about the sport.  My daughter is 7 and she is in basic 3 classes.  We don't want to spend a lot of money on skates because I still can't tell how much she likes ice skating.  She complains about her feet hurting all the time and does not want to practice - she rents skates.  I think that may be the problem.  I have been looking on ebay to possibly get some used ones.  Is this a good idea?  I found some Jackson Classique ($36) and Riedell 12W ($29).  I have no idea if these are what she needs, but the prices seen reasonable.  I have also found some CCM skates at Play It Again Sports for very cheap ($20).  Do any of these sound like a good idea, or am I headed in the wrong direction?  Any help will be appreciated.

[supra]

CCMs are bad. Good hockey skates, terrible figure skates.

And yes, the rental skates aren't good at all at most rinks. They're usually bent, missing insoles, not very sharp, etc.

Jackson and Riedell skates are pretty much the most common real (as in meant for more than occasional use) figure skates in America, both being US based companies. As far as the boots you listed, they're probably good for her level. Your best bet would be, look for used boots. Just make sure they're still reasonably stiff (as in, the sides don't bend in when you push them towards eachother) and the soles aren't falling off the boot.

One thing with skates, as far as sizing them, they're much different than shoes. You want the big toe to touch the skate, but not bend the toe, and then when laced up, you should only be able to fit one or two fingers between her heel and the back of the skate. Figure skates for me run a bit more true to shoe size, but in hockey skates, I wear size 9 or 10 shoes, but I wear size 7 hockey skates. My figure skates I think have been about a 9, and most shoes I'm a 10. One thing that's a problem with skates is a lot don't accommodate wide feet without ordering a wide version of the skate. Some brands are better than others, ie, Jackson is notorious for running wider, but yeah. So with shoes, some people just wear too big shoes all their lives because they're substituting length for width. Like Vans for example, are a wider running shoe than Converse, Vans I can wear 9.5, Converse I have to wear 10 or even 10.5. So that's the big issue, when you wear too small, your feet are cramped, and thus hurt (though in my experience, my feet hurt less wearing too small than too big) but if you wear too big, to keep your feet from sliding about in the skates too much, you tend to tighten the laces ridiculously tight to compensate, and then the tight laces push down on the foot, and give pain especially in the ball of the foot/middle of the foot. What happens if your skates are really too loose (or if they're very worn/badly made and floppy) when you step on the ice, the blades are like / \ instead of | | , and with the blades like / \ it's pretty much impossible to skate. That, and if they're too loose, that's when you get complains of hurt ankles and stuff, as the boots aren't supporting the ankles because they're too big.

But, the difference between your own skates and rentals is pretty night and day. Your own skates, you can sometimes heat form them to the feet, or if they're too tight in a certain spot, punch them out to fit you better. Also, the blades, the bottom of skate blades is actually a U shape, and the radius of it goes from, say, 1/4 inch, to 1 inch, what that means is if you drew a circle based off the skate's radius, if you got 1/4, it'd be a 1/4 inch circle, but with a deeper hollow on the bottom of the skate, you get more bite, or with a shallower hollow, you get more glide, etc, so there's that.

So yeah, I mean, you can get some good deals sometimes on skates. Generally you'd be spending a tad under a hundred new for a pair of figure skates, but the drop out rate for figure skating is higher at those ages, so there's a bigger market for used skates for your daughter (compared to if you're a 21 year old male like myself,) just sizing is pretty much the most important part of selecting a skate. You really wanna get her skating in something decent, though, so that way there she can get a fair view of skating, because if she skates in wrong size or really broken down boots, she'll probably hate it and quit. Also, if you wanna skate, and have the time to do it, it's wonderful exercise, it burns as many calories as running does per hour. So it'd be a good way to spend time with your daughter and get some exercise.

[Landing~Lutzes]

I had great succes with the Jackson Classiques when I incitially began. They lasted me about a year. I then switched to the Competitors, but I was able to do scratch spins and toeloops, waltz, and salchow jumps. I would definetely reccomend the Classiques!

[FigureSpins]

Unless you know a lot about skates, buying at a resale shop is a crapshoot.  You could be buying a skate that's far too stiff for her, it could be worn out, or it might be a real find - there's no way to know without a lot of research to educate yourself.

Buying online, especially used, is also tricky.  You can't tell if the skate will fit or if it's damaged in some way.  I bought a pair of skates that were photographed with soakers/guards in the images.  Turned out, they were hiding the fact that the blade was the wrong size!  If you knew exactly what you wanted and what the correct size should be, then you'd be okay with eBay, but otherwise, you could be buying a white elephant. 

The Riedell 12 is called the "White Ribbon" model - it's the bottom-of-the-line recreational skate.  Since your daughter is in Basic 3, she would need something with more support and a better blade.  Basic 4 involves a lot of one-foot maneuvers.  A Riedell 21/Blue ribbon would be better for her at this point.

The Jackson Classique is a good skate, maybe a little advanced for her level.  If it's in mint condition, the boot's a little too stiff with a freestyle blade that will take adjustment time.  If it's been used, the prior owner broke them in a bit, so they'll be fine. She'll still have to get used to the blade, but that only takes a few hours of practice.

The Jackson Artiste model is more appropriate for Basic 3/4.  You'll have to replace it (with the Classique or similar) when she gets to Basic 7/8 - it's not supportive enough for the skills at that level. Probably not a big deal: she'll likely outgrow the skate before then, anyway.

Skates really need to fit well - they should be an extension of the foot.  A size 3 Riedell is more narrow than a size 3 Jackson.  There's also a bit of difference in the length - I wear a Reidell 6.5 and a Jackson 7.5.  The different brands have different sizing sticks/charts for this reason.  They also fit the foot differently; one of my students hated the fit of the Jacksons - they hurt her heel.  Riedells fit her better.

Your best bet will be to have her measured by a fitter and ask them about resale or consignment skates.  One of my students bought new skates and the fitter had someone lined up to purchase her too-small ones as soon as the new ones arrived.  The fitter had her try on a pair of new boots, just to see if the fit was good beforehand.

Make sure they check the width of her foot; that's likely why the rentals are bothering her.  You definitely do NOT want to buy a longer skate if she needs a wider boot; stick with Jacksons or buy a wider-width skate.  Too-long skates are frustrating and cause a lot of dangerous trip-falls.  It's hard to find wide-width skates used; most people don't even realize that skates come in different widths.

You can ask the instructors to recommend a fitter, then make an appointment; don't just walk in or you could get someone who doesn't know what they're doing but wants to make a sale.

When buying new, sporting goods stores and some misguided pro shops will pressure the parent to try a longer skate that's in stock when the skater really needs a wider skate; don't let them hoodwink you.  Ask them to order the correct size if you're buying new.  Write down the size/width so you have a record when you go to pick up the skate.

Whatever you buy, get the blades sharpened so she starts out on even groomed skates.  You can clean up the skates with a Mr Clean Magic Eraser and some baking soda, then shoe polish.  Buy new laces and the skates will look like new!  (She'll also need soakers and guards, btw.)

One last bit of advice: skates are the only required piece of equipment for ice/figure skating.  I appreciate the concern that she's going to quit soon, but skates are not the place to cheap out.  If budget is an issue, splurge on good skates, used skates, but not on cutesy clothing or expensive accessories.  Those won't make her skate any better.

[aussieskater]

To FigureSpins' excellent advice, I would only add - don't let some unscrupulous vendor oversell you.  There is no benefit in buying "more skate" (stiffer boot, better blades etc) than the skater can use; in fact, too stiff a boot is counter-productive.

Good luck!

[jjane45]

Talking to skating parents at the rink would be helpful. If you are lucky, someone may have an idle pair that was outgrown yet still in great shape.

Do you have a skating pro shop in the area? They may carry used skates on consignment and at the beginners level they would not be too expensive. You can sell the skates on consignment too when you no longer need them, provided they are still in good shape (not broken down).

Rinks or skating clubs also may host skate swaps, ask the skating director maybe.

Good luck!!

[Cryo]

My daughter is 7.5 and is in the Jackson Artiste. I think her USFS equivalent would be free skate 3. She's working on loop and flip and Lutz. She weighs about 50lbs and the Artiste is plenty stiff for her. I think a classique would be too stiff for her to have proper flexion.

[jaylipop]

Thank all you guys for your comments.  BAsed on your feedback, I have decided to go get her fitted at our pro shop and spend more money on the skates.
I just hope she does not grow out of them quickly!

[sarahspins]

There is no benefit in buying "more skate" (stiffer boot, better blades etc) than the skater can use; in fact, too stiff a boot is counter-productive.

I agree 100%, buy what is appropriate now and for the next basic skills levels - when she's at the point where she needs "more" boot, then you can start looking at some higher models (but you still may not need to - there are plenty of kids at my rink skating low freestyle levels in skates like the Riedell 21, so even though it's a "beginner" boot/blade set it can last a while provided she doesn't have a growth spurt and outgrow them quickly).  I hate seeing little tiny kids (under about 10) in 33's in *any* of the basic skills levels because for most it's just too stiff of a boot and they're often purchased in the wrong size (too long) which only causes more problems than they solve.

As far as width, Jacksons have a much wider (and deeper) toe box than Riedell.. my daughter was uncomfortable when we tried the widest Riedells in the correct size but she's just fine in a C width Jackson.  My daughter is 6 and in basic 3 and skating on fairly old (and very well broken in) Freestyles, but if they weren't used when we got them they would have been MUCH too stiff... as they are right now they are "just right" and I am keeping my fingers crossed that she doesn't outgrow them any time soon.  I think the Artiste would be just fine for your daughter if she happens to fit Jackson better than Riedell.  I wouldn't go for any of the glacier or "soft skate" models.

[VAsk8r]

Thank all you guys for your comments.  BAsed on your feedback, I have decided to go get her fitted at our pro shop and spend more money on the skates.
I just hope she does not grow out of them quickly!

If she does, you should be able to sell the skates for a decent price to another parent. Let the coaches know you have skates for sale, or ask them about selling them through the local figure skating club. My club would sell your daughter's skates, if gently used, for $35, but if they are Classiques or another figure skate in the same price range you could probably get more.

My first figure skates were Classiques, and I loved them.

[FigureSpins]

If she does outgrow them, so be it.  You can ask about selling them on consignment through the pro shop or put up a flyer.  If you chat with other skating parents, one of them might buy the skates from you.  Skates are like new cars: as soon as you drive them off the lot, they depreciate in value.  It does keep them out of the landfill and put a bit of money back in your own pocket, while helping someone else.

The Corona & Liebenow (C&L) pro shop in NJ used to have a skate trade-in program for kids' skates.  You would buy skates from them and when they were outgrown, they'd give you a credit towards a different new or used pair.  They resell the skates for you.  It was very convenient for fast-growing kids, but I'm not sure if they still do that.

[jaylipop]

So should I buy used skates and not new ones, since they will be broken in? 

[jjane45]

So should I buy used skates and not new ones, since they will be broken in? 

That's one reason I buy used. Another is obviously the cost. just make sure it's really the right level, right size, and right condition.

[FigureSpins]

As skates are used, the leather softens up.  A new lower-level boot will be about the same stiffness as a used higher-level boot.  That evens them out and the used higher-level boot will be less expensive and already "broken in."   Breaking in skates is a process where the skates soften up a bit and mold to the skater's foot. It's usually around 4 hours of skating before the skates relax.  Used skates have less break-in time.

If the pro shop has a used pair that fits and is appropriate for her level, buy them.  But, make sure she tries them on for fit.  Used skates are sometimes stretched, so the marked size might not be accurate.  

When skaters start to outgrow their skates, Pro shops charge a minimal amount to 'stretch' leather skates. It makes the skates more comfortable for a few weeks and gives you time to buy replacements, but it does alter the skate size a bit, so always try on.

The skate's condition is also important.  If you see these things, don't buy the skates:

. Really deep creases mean the boots were either too big for the original wearer or broken-down, which means "worn out."  
. If you can easily bend the side of the boot at the ankle 4" or more, the boots are too soft/broken down.  
. Blade sole plate has sunken into the boot sole.  This shouldn't be an issue with PVC-soled skates, but it is a problem with leather soles.  When waterproofing of leather isn't done regularly, the blade sinks in and shifts position, making skating really difficult.

These are why I say to avoid the internet purchasing of used skates unless you know exactly what you need/want.  You can't check these critical things just by looking at posed pictures.  I've been duped twice on eBay purchases and I should know better, lol.

Don't worry about small nicks or scratches on the upper - they can be covered up with a paint marker.  (Michaels has these on sale this week - Sharpie brand.)

[Sk8tmum]

Be sure as well that no well-meaning soul has taken off the first toe-pick on the blades; I still see this on kids on LTS.

If your kid is really serious about the sport, I would suggest for the first skate to go to a decent fitter. Small children's feet are vulnerable and can be injured/damaged easily with a mis-fitting skate boot (too stiff, too tight, too short) and they don't have the maturity to necessarily tell you something doesn't fit right.  You're putting your kid's soft, still forming feet into a leather "box" ... it's important they fit correctly.  After you find out what brand fits her, then, buying used is easier. 

Also, you are a newbie parent - we were all there at one time - and you're asking questions, which is great.  I could probably, at this point, go in and get a used pair of skates for my daughter, as I now know a LOT about skates, how they should fit, when they are broken in, etc.  Didn't when we first started, and my kid's feet suffered with some really (looking back) stupid purchases on my part that I did just because it was a "deal".  Looking back, I know I wasted lesson $$$ and skating $$$ and time ... but, I didn't know any better.

[icefrog]

Find out if there are any good and reputable shops in your area and TAKE your child there. Ask her LTS teachers where you recommend. I have had many LTS parents ask me where to go, then I tell them and the next week they are in some ill fitting cheapo skate from Sports Authority when they would have been so much better off if they just spend $50 more and when to a great shop and got a nicer recreation skate that actually fits!

[FigureSpins]

I have had many LTS parents ask me where to go, then I tell them and the next week they are in some ill fitting cheapo skate from Sports Authority when they would have been so much better off if they just spend $50 more and when to a great shop and got a nicer recreation skate that actually fits!

Speaking of cheaping out, I have one example of "overbooting."  One of my group skaters' Dad found a bargain on eBay - five-year old Jackson Competitors (mid-level freestyle skate), not used, but a little dried out from storage.  She's a very-tall/thin beginner and is not strong by any definition.  The boots are way too stiff and the blades have (well, had) huge toepicks that she struggled with because she couldn't bend at the ankle.  I had her unlace the top hook to give her some bend so she didn't face-plant.  Daddy was very proud that he didn't go to the pro shop, which has one of the best fitters in town.  He thinks they're overpriced, but they include the fitting/adjustments/first sharpening in their price.  He instead drove 45 mins when I pointed out that the blades were dinged and rough.  You could see her rocking as the blade got "stuck" in the ice.  I didn't say anything after the sharpening, but the sharpener notched off the bottom toepick, so they're not going to last unless he buys new blades at some point.  If she doesn't get frustrated and quit before then.  

The converse, "underbooting" happened another group lesson student, short but a little heavy, strong.  She's wearing a pair of Jackson Glaciers that creased within a week and bend when she skates on one foot.  The kid's strong and agile, so she can do a lot of things but she can't do them well because the skates have no support.  She's a drop-off kid; I've never seen the parents come inside the building.  I get the feeling that she loses interest in things quickly, so I guess the parents just went with a cheap skate, but I had her for the second round of the same level and I blame the skates.  She has good balance and body control, but that bendy ankle makes her struggle all the time, and she can't find/hold the rocker for turns and spins.

I feel that underbooting is just as much an issue.  Before going down that path, you have to consider height, weight and strength.  A dainty little princess who weighs 2 lbs will be fine in a lower-strength boot, but a taller or heavier skater needs a stronger boot.  

[jjane45]

I skated in recreational skates thru ISI delta (inside three turns, forward edges). Looking back, the skates may have given me extra difficulties learning the turns as they had zero support. Sold that pair on craigslist eventually.

[jaylipop]

Thanks so much for your responses.  I am sure I will have more questions along the way.  We are going to the skate shop tomorrow night to try some on.