Silver/Preliminary Spirals

[nicklaszlo]

The testbook calls for "a minimum of four spirals."  It seems to me that nearly everyone does five spirals per length of the rink.

I'm much larger than the typical preliminary skater.  I would have to shrink my spirals to fit in five.  But doing four opens up a whole host of problems.  My fourth outside spiral is heading in the wrong direction to set up the first inside spiral.  Is it okay for me to do crossovers in the retrograde (clockwise) direction to set up the inside spiral?  Is it okay that my axis is essentially the midline of the rink so that every spiral comes near the boards?  If someone else is testing at the same time, will we crash?

Here's a sketch of the outside spiral portion of the pattern as I am trying to do it.  Does it make sense?  Please excuse me for drawing parabolas instead of semicircles.

[icedancer]

They are too big.

[aussieskater]

icedancer, in this test, does each spiral have to be held for 3sec (like an IJS spiral part-element), or does the skater just have to show the spiral position during the curve?

[jjane45]

I normally do four too. Come out of it and take deep crossovers to the other side for the inside. Hope it's ok.

I think spirals should not pass the long axis. Not sure if your issue is related to edge depth. It definitely reminds me of my problem with the Dutch waltz where swing rolls need to be on deeper edges and smaller so they catch up with music.

Also curious about how fast does one need to get into the spiral position and where on the lobe to start transitioning for the next lobe.

[sarahspins]

Is it okay for me to do crossovers in the retrograde (clockwise) direction to set up the inside spiral?

Yes - end pattern optional means you can pretty much do what you want, if that includes a loop to get to the other side of the pattern, that really isn't a problem, especially if you are facing the boards when you finish, it's probably easier to continue on the same circle than to turn into the corner (some of the higher level moves even have defined end patterns with similar loops).

Is it okay that my axis is essentially the midline of the rink so that every spiral comes near the boards?

ABsolutely not - the axis of the lobes should be the hockey dots, and if you are doing the spirals large enough to cross the center of the rink, then you may be trying to compensate for a lack of balance with speed (because it's easier to hold a spiral going faster than it is going slower) - as far as I know there is no "minimum hold time" for these, but you should get into the spiral quickly and hold the spiral position on the edge through each lobe.  I normally do my pattern with 4 on each side too because I use the dots and center line as my "change points" that I aim for with my lobes.  I usually continue the last lobe into a circle with a few crossovers partially because I found it was easier to go into the first inside spiral from that entrance rather than trying to turn sharply and cross the end evenly.

Part of what makes this pattern difficult for me is the slower (smaller) you do the spirals effectively the longer they have to be held because there really is not much speed going into them to make them the right size.  I feel like the intermediate spiral pattern goes by much faster and it's easier to hold those spirals because it is meant to be skated with more speed/power and cover more ice - doing the smaller lobes on this pattern is harder IMO.

[blue111moon]

If the red line on your diagram is where you are doing the spirals, I can tell you flat out that those spirals would not pass by any panel that I have ever seen.  The axis should NOT be down the center of rink.  Spirals that big indicate a lack of control.

Judges will accept four spirals down each side, since they want to see that you can do them on both feet and both edges.  Five is not necessary unless the skater is very tiny.  Holding for the three seconds is not necessary but the leg should be held in position, not just swung up and then down right away. 

[CaraSkates]

I'm much larger than the typical preliminary skater.  I would have to shrink my spirals to fit in five.  But doing four opens up a whole host of problems. 

I took Preliminary MIF as a teenager who was adult sized (I'm 5'6") and I was able to fit five in - having deep edges really helps. Four is fine but your axis needs to be closer to the red hockey dots, not the middle of the rink. What you are doing is much closer to the new Intermediate spiral pattern. The Preliminary spirals are not usually done with a lot of speed - it's more about the control and balance on the edges. Not only would what you are doing not pass, Preliminary/Silver is generally single paneled (at least in my region, I've never seen it NOT) and therefore, you would take over the ice and not give the skater testing with you a fair shot.

[FigureSpins]

It is typical to use the hockey dots as your long axis line, but it's not mandatory.  A skater can shift that axis left a bit in order to have larger lobes or to keep them from shying away from the wall with the same-size lobes.

However, wall-to-wall arcs are far too large.  If that's your natural tendency, you're not leaning into the edge enough to let the blade do its work.  Most blades have a 7' or 8' radius, so a clean edge will trace a lobe around that size if the skater is balanced properly.

The rulebook says a minimum of four spirals on each side, but the pattern shows five.  No biggie - when you finish the fourth FO spiral in the corner, turn CW and head for the other side of the rink with good stroking.  I actually prefer that because it brings me into that corner on an angle, making the FI spiral easier to start.

I initially teach each lobe with three phases:

. Checked and rising into full position
. Full position
. Checked and preparing for the next lobe

I prefer to see 2/3 of the lobe in full position. 

[jjane45]

However, wall-to-wall arcs are far too large.  If that's your natural tendency, you're not leaning into the edge enough to let the blade do its work.  Most blades have a 7' or 8' radius, so a clean edge will trace a lobe around that size if the skater is balanced properly.

Sorry a silly question... Compared to forward edges in pre-bronze moves, what makes the spiral pattern more difficult to control, apart from free leg height?

I prefer to see 2/3 of the lobe in full position. 

Thank you! It's safe then.

[nicklaszlo]

wall-to-wall arcs are far too large.  If that's your natural tendency

It's not.  I have to apply a lot of power.

I tried the smaller spirals.  No problem on the first four, but I'll need to get stronger to make the fifth one as good.

[nicklaszlo]

Compared to forward edges in pre-bronze moves, what makes the spiral pattern more difficult to control, apart from free leg height?

Coming out of the spiral is hard to check because as your free leg comes in your moment of inertial drops.  Getting a good push is also harder because the knee has been locked.

[sarahspins]

Getting a good push is also harder because the knee has been locked.

Begin your knee bend for the next spiral when your free leg is down about 1/2 or 2/3 of the way... that's how I have been doing it and I haven't had enough trouble sustaining momentum, the problem for me is endurance with my back muscles... usually they're burning about 75% through the pattern and I'm really struggling to get through the last two spirals.

[jjane45]

I tried the smaller spirals.  No problem on the first four, but I'll need to get stronger to make the fifth one as good.

You? Are you sure it's about strength?