IJS Scoring

[fsk8r]

Does anyone know a website which explains the codes for spins simply? While I'm only a bronze level skater, the UK is introducing IJS for all levels (except Beginner kids), so I'm trying to get myself up to date with the coding. I'm OK at understanding the jumps (they're simple enough) but I'm confused by the spin codes as they seem to have changed recently.
I have tried to read the ISU document, but while I can understand what you need to do to increase the levels, it doesn't tell me what the letters are which stand for a change foot spin, etc.

[sampaguita]

You might find Wikipedia useful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISU_Judging_System

The codes are all there.

[fsk8r]

Thanks. The bits I'm mainly confused with is what constitutes a basic position combination or change foot spin and what then gives you a level 1 (I'm not aiming that much higher than level 1).

[Isk8NYC]

Start with this: http://www.usfsa.org/content/2012-13%20Spins%20Difficult%20Variations%20Chart%20Tool_Singles.pdf

Then ...
http://www.usfsa.org/content/2012-13%20Singles%20Levels%20of%20Difficulty.pdf

I'll try to post more later, but this is a start.

[fsk8r]

Thanks Isk8NYC.

I think if I'm reading this correctly, a camel-sit spin would count as a combination but only in basic positions and with no difficulty features so they'll call it a level B, but if you were doing a back camel-sit spin it would be a level 1 as it had a backward entry which is a difficulty feature? And the same with a change foot upright spin, if you go from back spin to forward spin, that's worth more than going forward to backward.

I'm currently trying to work out what spins it is worth adding to my program for competition. I've been working on sit to broken leg sit, but I'm not sure whether that's worth adding and I would be better off working on my back to forward upright spin, or just having a fast upright spin for 8revs. I've been working on a camel-sit which should be worth more than a simple sit spin (or simple camel spin) but I can't tell where I'm best to be focussing my efforts. (Especially as I need to have a properly low sit spin on my camel-sit and that doesn't always happen!).

The aim is to maximise points while working within my limitations as a bronze level skater.

[FigureSpins]

Hmmm, I didn't think Bronze was judged under IJS; I thought it was a 6.0 event.  That's why the Rulebook allows vocals in music for all Adult events, but the higher-level adult skaters asked for IJS since that's what is used at Obersdorf.  This requires more coffee and research, but here goes:

From the AN announcement:

At the U.S. Adult Figure Skating Championships, the International System of Judging will be used for the following events: championship, masters and gold levels of singles and pairs, and the championship, masters, gold and pre-gold levels of dance (including masters open dance). All nonqualifying events will be judged using the 6.0 judging system.

You'd have to enter the Masters, Gold or Championship events for Bronze to be in an IJS event because the other events use 6.0.  (That's the part that confuses me; I don't know if AN offers those events for Bronze.)

IIRC, a change-foot spin that doesn't change position (ie. sit-change-sit) isn't considered a combination spin under IJS.  They both use the same sit "basic position," so a camel-change-sit would be more valuable.

[platyhiker]

FigureSpins:  fsk8r said that IJS is coming to the UK in a big way.

While I'm only a bronze level skater, the UK is introducing IJS for all levels (except Beginner kids), so I'm trying to get myself up to date with the coding.

(emphasis added by platyhiker)

[FigureSpins]

Oh, sorry.  I thought VAsk8r asked the original question about AN.  I must have mixed up the other thread.  Need more coffee.  The spin suggestions still apply, though.

[fsk8r]

Any suggestions on what a basic bronze level skater might be able to do for spins to maximise points? My starting point is an upright (forward and backward), forward sit and forward camel. I can now manage a broken leg sit (so variant on a sit but not sure what that's worth), and a camel-sit  (on a good day). There's the rule about it being a difficult variation to do more than 8revs, which is most likely to happen on the forward upright.

I think the issue is that I don't actually have much to start with, so I'm looking to try to pick my best two spins (points wise). I'm also figuring I need a fall back position for when having an off day or if say my camel-sit or my change foot upright are still works in progress come competition day.

Competition skating has really changed since IJS took off. Whereas before we'd be top loading programs with jump combinations, now they're being reduced down to one or two with the other jump passes just being solo jumps as everyone is worried about getting the jumps called so there's a lot of emphasis on not cheating your toe-loops and loops when they're done in combination.

[taka]

Thanks for the links above! It makes deciphering some of the scores for my friends skates at the British Adult Championships easier! (Held last week and run under IJS for all levels, Pre-bronze through Masters!) I really could do with learning more about spin codes.

Is this for Free (singles) or Solo free dance fsk8r? The IJS solo dance spin levels are different to free (though the codes are simpler!)... I think this is the most recent version but the NISA website is as unnavigable as always so who knows...

[fsk8r]

I'm worrying about free at the moment.

Although I have been reading the solo dance requirements and am thinking that I really ought to get practicing my twizzles in all manner of complicated positions and start stretching my legs into spreadeagles. My free dance is OK as I'm currently only entering it at pre-bronze (only have a straight line step sequence so it isn't compatible with bronze), but the spin side of things is covered as my sit spin is worth more than an upright.
And the newly revised step sequence might even be a level 3 if all the turns get called! (I doubt that will happen).

There's just so many rulebooks to keep up to date with. I can manage synchro quite easily but I get confused with the nuances of free and dance!

[techskater]

1) It is better to have a spin which gets a level B but 0 GOE than a level 1 but - GOE. 
2) Back entry only counts once in a program
3) 8 revolutions only applies to camel, layback and difficult variety of all spins
4) 8 revolutions in position only counts once in a program
5) If a spin is shorted at all in a position, even if there's a difficult variety on that foot later in the spin, it will still get a "B" for that side (so, a change combo spin that gets shorted in a position on one side can get a maximum of a L2 like Mirai Nagasu did at US Nationals in the SP for rocking off her center of her spin before 2 revs)

Hope this helps...

[fsk8r]

Thanks techskater.
That explains it really clearly.

I think the exercise my coach has had me on, working on the harder (for me!) positions and combinations is a good thing, but I suspect that I won't necessarily have the reliability high enough before the competition so having a fall back position isn't a bad thing.

[Doubletoe]

So can you do a change-foot upright spin (CUSp)?  If so, it is worth 1.5 points, more than any single position spin (Upright 1.0, Camel 1.1, Sit 1.1).  Can you do a forward sit to back upright?  If so, that would count as a CCoSp (1.7 points) and would be worth more than a CUSp (change foot upright, 1.5 pts), CoSp (Camel-sit, 1.5 pts) or SSp1 (sit with broken leg variation, 1.3 pts).

[fsk8r]

So can you do a change-foot upright spin (CUSp)?  If so, it is worth 1.5 points, more than any single position spin (Upright 1.0, Camel 1.1, Sit 1.1).  Can you do a forward sit to back upright?  If so, that would count as a CCoSp (1.7 points) and would be worth more than a CUSp (change foot upright, 1.5 pts), CoSp (Camel-sit, 1.5 pts) or SSp1 (sit with broken leg variation, 1.3 pts).

I'd never even thought about trying forward sit to back upright. I've messed around with camel-sit to back upright as it forces me to practice the camel-sit and the change foot, but hadn't ever really thought about it as a spin option for trying. I'll have to have a mess around tomorrow. Are you meant to do the change foot immediately or can you spend a couple of revs in the forward upright position before changing feet?
I suspect that sit and back spin might actually even be easier for me than a normal change foot as I need to control the speed for the change foot bit (I'm not that good at it) but on the back end of a sit spin I've already slowed myself enough for the change.

[Doubletoe]

I'd never even thought about trying forward sit to back upright. I've messed around with camel-sit to back upright as it forces me to practice the camel-sit and the change foot, but hadn't ever really thought about it as a spin option for trying. I'll have to have a mess around tomorrow. Are you meant to do the change foot immediately or can you spend a couple of revs in the forward upright position before changing feet?
I suspect that sit and back spin might actually even be easier for me than a normal change foot as I need to control the speed for the change foot bit (I'm not that good at it) but on the back end of a sit spin I've already slowed myself enough for the change.

You can absolutely come up from the forward sit into a forward upright for a few revolutions before switching feet and doing the back upright.  You just need to make sure you get 2 revolutions in a proper forward sit position first.