URGENT Screws/Waterproofing/Mounting Help!!!

[sampaguita]

I am scheduled to meet a pro guy tomorrow who will be mounting my skates, but he gave some very confusing information contradictory to what I know, and I would appreciate it if you could help me sort this out.

I have a new pair of Jackson Freestyle boots with attached Mirage blades. The blades are on temporary mount (4 screws). The box contains a bag of extra screws.

Here's what the pro told me:
1. The sole is leather and therefore has to be waterproofed. I told him that the Freestyle skates were chemically treated (according to Jackson reps), but he insisted that the chemical treatment is not permanent and therefore has to be redone. He said that the re-treatment will take 1 week to cure.
2. The screws provided in the box will rust, and must be replaced with stainless steel.
3. I cannot skate on my skates until the blade is permanently mounted, since the blade may be misaligned.

My problems with these proposals:
1. I know that the bottom part of the sole has some kind of plastic coating, and that the soles have been chemically treated. Won't re-treatment damage the existing waterproofing? Isn't snow-sealing the exposed parts WITHOUT removing the blades enough?
2. Yes, the screws are magnetic....but it makes me wonder why Jackson use these screws in the first place?  
3. So how do I know that my skates will be properly aligned?

I would really appreciate any comments on this ASAP....thank you very much!

[FigureSpins]

I don't understand what you're saying ... he's "mounting" the skates but they already have blades on them with temp screws?  "Mounting" means to attach blades to boots.  Are you changing blades?

I agree with him on #2.  Jackson doesn't supply stainless-steel screws.  I replace them on the Jacksons, too.

A week to waterproof?  Sounds like he's using varnish or polyuretane.  SnoSeal takes a few minutes to apply and doesn't have to dry.

I think you misunderstood what he said about the permanent blade screws.  Jumping with temp screws is a bad idea: they can loosen up and the blade can pull off/strip the holes.  Putting in permanent screws without checking alignment isn't the correct order.  The skater should "try out" the blades with the temp screws, to see if the alignment is correct. Typically, the fitter or a coach checks the blade alignment.  You'll need someone to watch you skate and see if you're falling to the inside/outside.  You can kind of DIY, but it's hard to tell what's a blade alignment and what's an insole issue.

[sampaguita]

The blades are on a temporary mount -- I need them permanently mounted for safety.

The pro specifically mentioned "chemical" -- is varnish a chemical, or must it be something else? In any case, if it is varnish, is it better than Sno-seal?

The way I understood the pro was that he won't let me skate because the blade might be "misaligned". He knows I don't jump, so I'm assuming he's just going to remove the screws, waterproof, then replace the blade with the new screws.

If he insists on this method and the blade turns out to be misaligned (I have mild pronation), is it possible to correct a permanent mount? And how many screws are reasonable to attach?

PS: How hard is it to mount blades? I have no plans to do it DIY, but I'd just like to know if this process is as sensitive to the skill of the technician as skate sharpening.

[hopskipjump]

The skates come with a finish.  Our proshops  (we have used two):

1. would sand the skate sole to remove the factory wax and apply snoseal.  It was an hour or so wait because they are busy.

2. would prep the bottom, do artwork and then varnish (I don't think it is a true varnish but it is a chemical and does have a high gloss), and wax.  This would take a few days - a week if they were very busy.

It's personal preference, but I prefer the varnish.  Before axel, the varnish kept the bottoms perfect.  But once she really started jumping the varnish does crack but he uses snoseal so the bottoms are still perfect.  With Sno seal, you do get a little dark discoloration (okay I think it's mold but the proshop insisted it was normal).

Have you skated and are the blades where you want them?  This process can take several back and forth visits.  I think we had 4 for her last skates.  If you think the blade is in the perfect spot then don't worry about alignment - that is where he will put the blade.  If you need it adjusted a little, you would have him move it, go back to the ice and test it with your coach, and then decide if it's perfect.  If it's not, the coach will say move the left one in a little or something.  I write it down because I mix things up...  Then you go back, get it moved and test it again.  Once it's perfect you get it mounted.

All holes are filled in so no worries there.  After her skate is varnished and it's mounted ideally, then, he fills in the area over some of the screws with some sort of filler.

Again everyone has a preference on how they like their skates done, varnish or sno seal.    Both places charged about the same - $60.

[Sk8tmum]

Back when we used Jacksons, it was a simple process:

• Buy Skates
  Go To Skate Mounter
  Have the permanent screws put in.
  Have them sharpened.
  Skate

.

We never SnoSealed them (I've never heard of anyone doing this to a Jackson, actually), and our mounter is rather an impressive gentlemen; you're likely to run into everyone from Yuna Kim to Daisuke, to Jeff Buttle, to a Learn to Skater-er in his shop.  We only SnoSealed when we got Riedells, as it is recommended (they include it in the package).

Blades didn't need to be moved as the sharpener got to know the kids, and we always took the old skates in anyways, so that wear, positioning, etc could be checked on the old skates. Never had a problem    

[retired]

I used to sno-seal my bottoms, but they tend to leak brown patches of slush onto the ice.  I've been getting them varnished lately.  The varnish will peel off over the factory finish that's on the unsanded part of the Jacksons, so if your fitter is sanding that off, it's okay, just remember that varnish does need regular upkeep.   

I am on a project to sand out my snow sealed ones, and paint the soles black since it's a look back in fashion, like when I was a kid.  I'll use regular shoe polish and likely wax them after.  It's a lot more maintenance than varnish.       I have three pairs of skates so I can do different things.

Definitely stainless screws.  They're just stronger and don't break.

[sarahspins]

I would replace the screws with stainless, just because it's inexpensive to do and they won't rust on you.

Skate on the temp mount, you will NOT hurt anything, I promise.  You can actually do quite a lot of skating before it's a "problem" that you don't have permanent mounts.  Since you're not really jumping and not doing advanced spins, there's really nothing to worry about.  Even jumping and spinning in temp mounts is fine - you just wouldn't want to do it for months and months.  Where I am, most of the time people skate on the temp mounts for anywhere from 2-6 weeks, then have the permanent screws put in... usually skates doing the harder jumps (doubles, triples) will get the permanent screws in faster.

While on the temp mounts, check the screws to make sure they are snug every time you skate - when the soles are new, the leather can compress a little bit with skating and the screws can become a little loose.  

If you feel like your blades are not aligned, you can loosen the screws and nudge the blade over yourself - you don't need a pro to do this, but I would not make big adjustments.  Just be careful when re-tightening the screws that you don't strip them.  You can also ask a coach to check the alignment - they'll simply watch you skate and may ask you to try a few things, and can tell if you need them moved over one way or the other.

I can actually tell by just wearing boots off-ice with guards if the blade is in the right position for me.. you can probably feel it if you try to stand on one foot, if you find yourself falling to one side or the other.. moving the blade just a tiny bit can make a huge difference.  The last two pairs of blades I've adjusted off-ice like this, and they only needed very minor repositioning once I had skated on them.

Like I said before, you can sno-seal the sides of your soles yourself - you don't need to pay someone to do what you can do yourself for $7 with a hair dryer  The bottom of the sole on Jacksons is sealed and needs no special treatment.

[SynchKat]

Sk8tmum sounds like we use the same mounter dude.  .

I have only ever taken my skates to him and he does his magic.  I will do with my new skates I will be getting soon.

Sarahspins has a good suggestion of trying out the blades on a this temp mount. Make sure they are in a spot you like them.   

[sampaguita]

Thanks everyone for responding!

I ended up handing over my skates to the pro guy (turns out the one I was talking to wasn't the pro guy after all, just a middleman). I think his waterproofing method is okay since it's humid where I skate, so additional waterproofing is indeed necessary. He told me to skate first with the temporary mounts on.

My coach told me to test one-foot glides. My left foot can do a long straight one-foot glide. My right foot can do a straight one-foot glide for a while, but veers to the right inside edge after 3-4 seconds. Coach told me that's fine, and the pro guy said that the blade is correctly aligned (I asked others in the rink about this, and they told me the same thing). I don't know if this is true though -- what can explain that involuntary shift to the inside edge, except for natural pronation? Even then, I do not know if I can trust the pro guys to offset the blade, since it might cause more harm than good.

I also noticed that my right boot also does not fit my right foot very well (the right foot is wider than the left but shorter by a half-size). When I try to tighten my right skate, the problem is alleviated, but only for a few seconds (yes, seconds).

[hopskipjump]

It doesn't sound fine.  Even if the blade is perfectly mounted, it may not be perfect for you.  All he has to do is loosen it and nudge it over a mm or two and have you try again.  - not a big deal for him...

[sarahspins]

I agree, it doesn't sound fine, the blade has to be moved slightly to the outside or you'll be fighting this for the rest of the time you own the skates.  This is one of the reasons the blades are temp mounted - so they CAN be adjusted.

You need to stand up for yourself in this situation - it sounds from your other thread that you've already handed your skates off to the pro for waterproofing and I'm presuming permanent mounting, and you should not have felt so pressured to do so.  Whoever you have locally that is insisting that you needed to do this ASAP is wrong, it's not quite that urgent.

I would also recommend having the boots heat molded BEFORE you get the permanent mount done.. when the boot is shaped to your foot better it may slightly change the position of your body (and center of gravity) relative to the blade.

[CrossStroke]

I agree, it doesn't sound fine, the blade has to be moved slightly to the outside or you'll be fighting this for the rest of the time you own the skates.  This is one of the reasons the blades are temp mounted - so they CAN be adjusted.

I 3rd that.  However, I think sarahspins meant that the blade has to be moved slightly to the *inside* - possibly just the heel needs to be nudged in (somewhat less likely, the toe needs to be nudged out).

[sampaguita]

Thanks for the inputs! I just texted the pro guy and told him to not mount the blades permanently and just do the waterproofing first.

When I wore my skates today, my feet could feel my blades, especially on my right foot -- it felt like the blade was on my foot. Is that another symptom of misalignment?

[SK8N]

You should also check your edges.  I also pronate but have orthotics that help some.  When I got my new skates, the blades were mounted in the center and I could do a one-foot glide without a problem.  However, I couldn't hold an outside edge, I kept falling to an inside edge instead.  I had my blades moved in and now I can hold the outside edge fine.