Skate help with 10 year old - fsf

[JimStanmore]

3skatekiddos
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Post Title: Skate help with 10 year old
Posted: 02-09-2007, 09:06 AM

Once again I have questions
My 10 yo DS is going to take some group and private figure skaing lessons. He plays hockey, is quite a good skater already but he has really taken a shine to one of the younger male coaches at my daughters club. He thinks he is really cool ( he is LOL ) and wants to skate like him. Originally he was going to do the lessons on his hockey skates and have the focus be on helping him with his hockey. He ( not me, I swear ! ) has now decided that he would like to learn some jumps and spins. Should I start him off in his hockey skates anyway ? Should I try to find hime some figure skates ? Used boys figure skates seem to be very hard to find. I am just unwilling to spend $200 if he isn't going to stick with it. Would skates like these work ?
http://tinyurl.com/3xl5ud
Thanks for any thoughts.
Kat 

blue111moon
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Posted: 02-09-2007, 09:52 AM

I've taught little (4 and 5 year olds) boys two-foot spins on hockey skates but I've never had a beginner boy learn to jump in hockey skates. Yes, I've seen guys who already knew how to do jumps in figure skates do edge jumps in hockey skates and I have seen a couple of very brave male hockey skaters attempt to do some jumps and spins in hockey skates but I can't say they ever learned correct technique; the successful attempts were more accidental than anything else.

So I'd suggest that figure skates would make it easier for your sone to learn spins and jumps. I'd check with all of the pro shops in the area for used ones first; most of the places I know generally have a few pairs lying around in corners. Just make sure that whatever you get for him fits well! Fit in figure skates is more crucial than in hockey skates.

And the stuff he learns on figure skates (edge control, weight transfer, etc) will help his hockey skills anyway so the lessons won't be wasted, even if he decides that figure skating isn't his thing.

P.S. When I click on your link, I get sent to a site for Canadian Tire Co. No skates. 

d b n y
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Posted: 02-09-2007, 10:23 AM

I know some very, very talented hockey skaters, and just guys on hockey skates too, who can do all kinds of things in hockey skates. He can certainly start in them. Figure skates are easier to learn in, so since your son is already a skater, no need to go that route at this point. Also, I would wait for the coach to recommend figure skates, which he surely will, if your son sticks with it. 

3skatekiddos
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Posted: 02-09-2007, 11:06 AM

The link should go to the S/P comfort skate that Canadian Tire sells. I am in Canada BTW. Less expensive than a traditional figure skate but with the toe picks etc. Just me trying to be cheap. I want him to have what he needs to start properly, I just don't want to spend a lot of money if it's going to be a phase. KWIM ?

Kat 

Mrs Redboots
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Posted: 02-09-2007, 11:22 AM

In which case, I should leave him in his present skates until he gets to a point where he really needs figure skates. The basic skills are exactly the same in both disciplines; it's only the posture that is very different - hockey players, of course, need to be able to skate bending forwards to manipulate their sticks, whereas figure skaters need to be much more upright to keep their centre of gravity stable to jump and spin. 

dooobedooo
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Posted: 02-09-2007, 11:50 AM

Plenty of people paint white boots black; or use black bootcovers. See threads elsewhere here. Secondhand skates come really cheaply for the quality. For secondhand boots/blades, ask "cool" coach, see club noticeboard, or club sales.

I tend to agree with d b n y, see whether he lasts out a couple of lessons before you buy him more skates - maybe offer to get him some once he has passed his first rink test (maybe a month away). 

phoenix
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Posted: 02-09-2007, 03:17 PM

Personally I think it's very important for him to have toe picks if he's starting anything beyond basic edges/crossovers/mohawks. Even 3 turns are much harder w/o toe picks. I've seen them done in hockey skates, but they tend to jump over the turn & never really get the right movement.

You've said your son is already a strong skater, so I assume he'd be pretty ready to start in on spins/3 turns/jumps. In which case I think he should have a blade with toe picks. You could get him a basic skate/blade set that isn't too expensive to start & see how it goes. I don't know about the one in the link; I can't see toe picks there but maybe it's just the photo. Just be aware that if he does take to figure skating those probably won't last him long. 

Lmarletto
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Posted: 02-09-2007, 03:39 PM

My son has been working with a figure skating coach to improve his skating "for hockey" and he's been able to work on all the moves type stuff in his hockey skates. His sister has taught him a waltz jump and a two foot spin. Certainly starting out in hockey skates is fine. His coach won't teach him to jump in hockey skates because the difference in the blade would almost guarantee bad habits.

At his age, if your son is already a decent skater, he will progress through the jumps fairly quickly once he starts working on them. I wouldn't bother with anything less than a Jackson Freestyle/Riedell Bronze Star level skate because he will need a real figure skating boot very quickly. If you can't find anything secondhand, it won't hurt him to put off jumping until you're prepared to spend $150-200 on figure skates.

I wish we'd had my son take skating lessons with a figure skating coach from the beginning. Even though hockey players can get away with bad posture and two foot skating, strong one foot skating skills improve their balance in checking and scrambling for the puck and good posture frees their upper body for better stick handling and shooting. My son has also discovered that the teenage girls who come to games notice when a player looks smooooth on the ice, lol. 

Lmarletto
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Posted: 02-09-2007, 03:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix 
Personally I think it's very important for him to have toe picks if he's starting anything beyond basic edges/crossovers/mohawks. Even 3 turns are much harder w/o toe picks. I've seen them done in hockey skates, but they tend to jump over the turn & never really get the right movement.


I've never noticed figure skaters using their toepicks in 3-turns! 3-turns are harder in hockey skates because the rocker is smaller than a figure skate and your balance has to be much better to make a nice smooth "3", but if a kid is comfortable in hockey skates a good coach can teach them to do nice 3-turns. I actually see quite a few kids yanking around three turns in figure skates. I think it's a universal tendency unless you have a coach standing over you making you do it the right way. 

phoenix
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Posted: 02-09-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lmarletto 
I've never noticed figure skaters using their toepicks in 3-turns!


It's not something you'd see watching someone skate, probably even if you were looking for it. If you look at the tracing on the ice, you'd see it, & if you do it yourself, you'd feel it. The pick barely grazes the ice as the foot turns.

I do know it's possible to do 3's w/ hockey skates, just much harder. 

Isk8NYC
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Posted: 02-09-2007, 07:48 PM

You said he's a good skater that wants to try to learn figure skating elements. I can understand not wanting to spend the money for something that might be fleeting. Still, I think that the flatter figure skating blade might make it easier for him to master the elements.

On the other hand, does anyone remember that comedian who skated in "Skating with Celebrities?" He was a good hockey player but just couldn't get the hang of skating pairs with the figure skates after weeks of practice. Out of frustration, he took off the bottom toe pick of his figure skates with a grinder.


Is there an older boy in the rink, who might have an old pair of figure skates that you could borrow for a few weeks? The skating director or head pro might be able to help you connect with someone. 

Mrs Redboots
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Posted: 02-10-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lmarletto 
My son has also discovered that the teenage girls who come to games notice when a player looks smooooth on the ice, lol.


And if you take him to a figure skating competition, he'll probably notice that the teenage girls who go to those swoon very loudly indeed over the really good male figure skaters! If you're a boy and you want to be well and truly run after by the girls, learn to figure skate!

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix 
It's not something you'd see watching someone skate, probably even if you were looking for it. If you look at the tracing on the ice, you'd see it, & if you do it yourself, you'd feel it. The pick barely grazes the ice as the foot turns.


Ummm - I'm always told that this mark shouldn't be there! And sadly, on my left foot at any rate, it is. As I understand it, such a mark would automatically fail you on compulsory figures. 

Laura H
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Posted: 02-12-2007, 08:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix 
It's not something you'd see watching someone skate, probably even if you were looking for it. If you look at the tracing on the ice, you'd see it, & if you do it yourself, you'd feel it. The pick barely grazes the ice as the foot turns.

I do know it's possible to do 3's w/ hockey skates, just much harder.


My son started off in hockey skates and then decided he was a figure skater . . . he knocked a front tooth loose (fortunately no damage to the root and everything turned out OK) trying to learn 3 turns in hockey skates . . . so much easier to pitch over with the hockey skate rocker! That was enough to scare me into biting the bullet and buy the figure skates . . . fortunately he DID stick with it and is still going strong 1 1/2 years later! 

Laura H
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Posted: 02-12-2007, 08:42 AM

Oh, I should have mentioned his age just for info . . . he was, I think 7 then, is now almost 9. 

3skatekiddos
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Post Title: Update
Posted: 02-12-2007, 08:55 AM

So I went into my local figure skating store this weekend with my daughter
( and walked out lighter in the wallet - imagine that ! ) and I was talking to the owner about my dilema about my son's skates and she was awesome. Said to bring him and get him fitted for size and then she would post a want it ad for a used pair on the store website. Coming from a retail background I LOVE good customer service. I bought my DD's skates there, a practice outfit for her and just had my skates sharpened there too. I am really impressed that she didn't just try to sell me a new pair for DS but listened to my concerns about him trying the sport and not sticking with it. So obviously if he does stick with it she knows I will buy new from her. I also talked with "cool" coach and he said his preference is to have him in figure skates but he will work with whatever we chose to do. He also said get used and said he wasn't too concerned with what model/brand for the first pair.
Thanks for all your help guys !
Kat 

[JimStanmore]

Isk8NYC
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Posted: 02-12-2007, 09:59 AM

Let us know what brand/model/size you need and we'll ask around, too. 

Rob Dean
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Posted: 02-12-2007, 11:17 AM

Right. We've got two outgrown pairs of black skates with life left in them sitting around here now; I'd be happy to get them somewhere needed... 

Isk8NYC
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Posted: 02-12-2007, 11:38 AM

Whenever the twins get new skates, the best-looking pair go to their "Godsister" in Connecticut. The other pair gets sold on eBay or (if they're shabby-looking) loaned out to skaters who I think "show promise." Like I'm some skating matron, hahahaha!

I have one tiny pair of outgrown skates that are now "on loan" for the third time to one of my students. This girl is adorable, with the most beautiful eyes. She's a pretty good beginning skater who's going to be in the annual Show. 

3skatekiddos
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Post Title: Size 4 boys skates needed
Posted: 02-12-2007, 05:07 PM

So DS got fitted and he needs a size 4. So if anyone has a pair kicking around they would be greatly appreciated. I can send Paypal or cash and just remember that I am in Canada so it will require a trip to the post office !
Thanks
I will post this in trades too. 

phoenix
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Posted: 02-12-2007, 08:25 PM

Can you tell us what brand he was fitted for? It can vary widely between brands. 

3skatekiddos
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Post Title: Oops
Posted: 02-13-2007, 07:52 AM

He was fitted for a jackson marquis. And the salesperson did say that he has wide toes so that really narrow skates won't work well for him. But she thought Jackson and Riedell would both be fine.
Kat 

3skatekiddos
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Post Title: Whoo hoo.
Posted: 02-13-2007, 02:26 PM

I just won a pair of Jackson Marquis skates for DS from ebay. $24.50 plus shipping and they are new. So I am happy and hopefully he will be too. I will post on how he likes them.
Thanks for all the help
Kat