New tread opened to discuss this topic at own thread.
Adminstrator/moderator
Could you kindly move post #63 - #67 from https://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=8687.50 to this thread?
Thank you!
thank you katsu for your serious help to improve skate sharpening around the world.
I didn't think about creating this new topic, because it was also a bit about spare parts and improving IE.
I don't know if this would be of interest to many people, but I think it's still doable for sharpeners who have an 8" machine and who like precision and I know there are a few of us on the skating forum.
I have had many ideas for a long time to do this but I really want to make this sharpener
Here are some of my ideas:
a motor with pulley (approximately 75 mm), O-ring (green in the photo) as a belt, a 3" grinding wheel axis with a pulley (approximately 20mm), a table sliding lengthwise (like woodworking machines , and other slides in the perpendicular direction.
I would think about keeping a skate holder (blademaster or other) that I would put on the entire sliding system.
and I would also have imagined the same dressing system for the blademaster grinding wheel..
or rather this surfacing plate in smaller size
I think this rail set would be the best for 200€
I can't help with construction ideas, as I have neither engineering training nor machine shop experience.
But AFAICT, people who try to do as good a job as possible spend a lot of time centering the wheel on the blade (at both ends, and in the middle, if possible), to try to make the edges of equal length.
Is it practical to add a mechanism that speeds that up, or at least measures whether they are centered?
Also, at least one figure skating blade holder is designed to temporally straighten the blade (if it is warped). I guess they cost more, but they seem like a good idea, because warped blades are hard to sharpen well - if you center the wheel on the blade at both ends, it will be off center in the middle. (I'm not sure if there are any that can hold hockey blades too - which matters, because hockey blades are somewhat frequently warped due to collisions with other blades.)
Many sharpening machines include an extra fixture that straightens blade permanently, by bending it a little in the opposite direction. Blades skate better (with substantially less friction) if they are straight. Though I was told it is risky, and needs to be discussed with the skater - the tech I discussed it with said that the blade sometimes breaks when the warp is over about 1 mm. (In fact, when new blades were sent to him warped from the HD Sports factory, he returned them, at which point HD Sports sent them to a less picky dealer.)
You have started your designing from linear guide rails, just like me. When I have started to think about how to make spindle cartridge where to mount wheel, things get complicated. What kind of belt I should use, how to get pulley wheels with correct diameters, how arrange belt tightening system? How to make 2 point height adjustment system for skate carrier? How to build diamond dressing system?
In this stage of my plans, motivation has typically dropped close to zero. I could make drawing for all these individual components, but ordering machining and heat treatment etc. would be very costly for single items. Most likely there is also need to tune design after first prototype, which increases costs dramatically. Building only one machine costs possibly more that buying new IE or BRPD1.
By the way...
If you are considering to use belt pulley system, typically electrical motor speed is increased by using larger pulley wheel in motor end that in spindle shaft. If so, this means that your electrical motor needs to have enough high torque. If your bicycle has large gear in pedals and small gear in back wheel, its heavy for cyclist. Same principle applies to sharpening machine.
Marc, what tool do you sharpen with now?
Quote from: Kaitsu on November 11, 2024, 11:20:50 AMQuel type de courroie dois-je utiliser
I think that those who have an IE should try putting an O-ring in place of the original belt because I have a friend who has an HSS drill/countermill sharpener and who does with that.
And as it is quite elastic I think there is less need to tighten the original belt.
Quote from: Kaitsu on November 11, 2024, 11:20:50 AMcomment obtenir des roues de poulie avec des diamètres corrects,
This is a bit complicated, I need to reread the exchanges on the IE, how many revolutions should the wheel holder rotate?
Quote from: Kaitsu on November 11, 2024, 11:20:50 AMComment fabriquer un système de réglage de la hauteur à 2 points pour un porte-patin
I will base myself on the blademaster trolley holder that I already have and which I would place on a sliding table lengthwise and widthwise (as in the previous photos)
Quote from: Kaitsu on November 11, 2024, 11:20:50 AMComment construire un système de dressage au diamant ?
J'essaierais de m'aider du systéme blademaster qui serait je pense le lus simple
Quote from: Kaitsu on November 11, 2024, 11:20:50 AMConstruire une seule machine coûte peut-être plus cher que d'acheter un nouvel IE ou BRPD1.
yes but how much does the IE cost (4500e!!,,) and where can we find it?
When the blademaster is even more expensive I think (6500€!!??) right?
Quote from: Kaitsu on November 11, 2024, 11:20:50 AMSi vous envisagez d'utiliser un système de poulie à courroie, la vitesse du moteur électrique est généralement augmentée en utilisant une poulie plus grande à l'extrémité du moteur que dans l'arbre de broche.
yes, I understood, and I just did some calculations on that. and if I could use my current blademaster to be able to do a few things that would be great! But that would mean putting a pulley just smaller than 3" on the spindle shaft and maybe changing the original motor with a variator to find the right rotation
Quote from: Query on November 11, 2024, 11:59:16 AMMarc, avec quel outil aiguises-tu maintenant ?
I have been sharpening since I started (2 1/2 years) with an 8" Blademaster and I can sharpen very well. I would just like to try a 3" at a lower cost!
Quote from: Kaitsu on November 11, 2024, 11:20:50 AMÀ ce stade de mes plans, la motivation est généralement tombée à près de zéro.
I don't know if I'm right to persist in trying to do this. I pass and I will have sleepless nights but I cannot spend 4500€ on such a machine! (it would be mission impossible to find this used machine even if I would travel to southern Europe).
I think deep down that it is achievable with supplies that can be found here or there...Also, it is very similar to me not to bother making a 3", and to continue with an 8 "...the future will tell
Quote from: Kaitsu on November 11, 2024, 11:20:50 AMYou have started your designing from linear guide rails, just like me. When I have started to think about how to make spindle cartridge where to mount wheel, things get complicated. What kind of belt I should use, how to get pulley wheels with correct diameters, how arrange belt tightening system? How to make 2 point height adjustment system for skate carrier? How to build diamond dressing system?
In this stage of my plans, motivation has typically dropped close to zero. I could make drawing for all these individual components, but ordering machining and heat treatment etc. would be very costly for single items. Most likely there is also need to tune design after first prototype, which increases costs dramatically. Building only one machine costs possibly more that buying new IE or BRPD1.
By the way...
If you are considering to use belt pulley system, typically electrical motor speed is increased by using larger pulley wheel in motor end that in spindle shaft. If so, this means that your electrical motor needs to have enough high torque. If your bicycle has large gear in pedals and small gear in back wheel, its heavy for cyclist. Same principle applies to sharpening machine.
I have exactly the same thoughts.
I have been thinking about a 3" machine for a long time. I made an 8" machine with variable speed, I based it on the machine I have, blademaster sp850.
It allows me to use wheels almost to the end.
Unfortunately, making a machine like IE will be very difficult. Getting, making parts. Something like Blademster would be easier.
Kaitsu , Many Thanks for the photos BRPD1
Quote from: Qsior on November 28, 2024, 06:45:54 PMI have exactly the same thoughts.
I have been thinking about a 3" machine for a long time. I made an 8" machine with variable speed, I based it on the machine I have, blademaster sp850.
It allows me to use wheels almost to the end.
Unfortunately, making a machine like IE will be very difficult. Getting, making parts. Something like Blademster would be easier.
Kaitsu , Many Thanks for the photos BRPD1
Non, je pense que c'est vraiment réalisable pour tout le monde.
Depuis 1 mois je pense que à cela.
Il faut essayer de trouver et d'assembler des machines existantes:
Rail montrés ci dessus en photos,
Et j'aurais trouvé la machine qui irait le mieux, que je partagerai dans le prochain message.
Voici le modèle de machine que je voudrais modifier:
je mettais une meule que j'ai dèja de blademaster 3
je me servirais du porte foret pour y mettre le diamant...
je mettrais les rails que j'ai acheté en photos précedentes
par contre j'ai un probleme c'est pour changer le moteur ...
Si vous pouvier m'aider à trouver cela...
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/32/b5/cf/32b5cf8b9948e19916d991cff4873d41.jpg
https://photos.google.com/u/0/photo/AF1QipNrcaFEVK6FPqeitNukZjFgOTR_bz3HJ3D3PDJ7
Voici l'avancement de ma future machine à affuter 3"
prochaine étape:
rail de guidage linéaire et montage d'un moteur 400w avec un arbre porte meule.
mery christmas
Quote from: marc on December 24, 2024, 12:18:04 PMhttps://photos.google.com/u/0/photo/AF1QipNrcaFEVK6FPqeitNukZjFgOTR_bz3HJ3D3PDJ7
Unfortunately this link is not working.
Quote from: Kaitsu on November 11, 2024, 11:20:50 AMYou have started your designing from linear guide rails, just like me. When I have started to think about how to make spindle cartridge where to mount wheel, things get complicated.
What do You think about using such a solution and mount wheel direct on the motor ?
as I already wrote, I made a machine for 8"
it cost me about 500 euros
Qsior:
C'est déjà bien d'avoir fait cette construction, mais j'ai déjà une blademaster .
Je voulais construire ma propre machine en 3" et j'approche la fin.
Cela fait 1 mois que je travaille dessus et beaucoup de nuit à réfléchir aussi!. Je viens d'affûter 4 paires de patins et le résultat est vraiment super.
Dès que je peux, j'enverrai un lien sur youtube quand j'aurais le temps de faire ça.
marc
great, I'm waiting for the video.
I made this machine because the SP850 only allows you to use half a wheel.
but because I have SP850, I used the diamond arm and 4 of my skate holders.
and I think those rails you showed would be great. I could put the Blademster SH-6500 holder on them
Qsior ,
Comme j'avais mis au tout début, moi aussi je voulais faire avec le diamant de blademaster mais au final j'ai copié le porte diamant ez sharpening qui est plus adapté.( Cette pièce m'a coûté chère en heure de travail !)
Attention les rails de guidage que j'avais commandé sont pas si précis que cela, alors là aussi j'ai improvisé, jusqu'à éliminer le plus possible de vibrations.
Sur ma machine 3", j'ai du monter et démonter et modifier très très très souvent toutes les pièces pour arriver à faire les réglages les plus précis possible.
Avant tout cela je voudrais beaucoup remercier Kaitsu qui m'a fait comprendre les avantages de 3",.. et qui dans l'ombre m'a beaucoup aidé sur ce projet délicat....
je sais pas si ce volume de video passe...
mais voilà mon résultat dont je suis fier car j'ai une extraordinaire finition qui se rapproche de ma blademaster 8"
patin edea chorus with coronation ace
https://photos.google.com/u/0/photo/AF1QipNkizZNSwQ8sacxA8I2V3fQchwFGdGD1wWjbtX1
essaie de la meule croisée sur patin bas de gamme qui appartient à la patinoire à coté de chez moi et qui a l'air de fonctionner.
je ferais un petit résumé de tout cela un peu plus tard...
https://photos.google.com/u/0/photo/AF1QipMeg5YXYS4Vsm8fPA90-mgZ37XCtbD3uWJjdSZA
dites moi si vous pouvez voir les video sinon je les mettrais sur youtube mais c'est plus long!
Links not working :-(
Zut,...
Cela va me prendre un peu plus de temps...
https://youtu.be/sbyYsizdiTs?feature=shared
Et là, cela fonctionne ??
Yes it's working now :)
Looks great . Very good job :-)
Can You show us , how you installed the wheel? how do you dress the wheel?
Oui,
Je te promets de faire d'autres vidéos, sur youtube donc.
Ouvre de temps en temps ce post...
voici comment je taille ma meule
c'est un peu comme la: ez sharpening
https://youtube.com/shorts/13VM9xPazpM?feature=share
oh now I see .
Great job Marc.
congratulations :)
You motivated me to do mine.
I just need to find a way to mount the 3' wheel or a ready cartridge spindle .
Maybe from cnc machine
Maybe from cnc machine
[/quote]
C'est une des pièces les plus dures à trouver !
Mais tu seras confronté à d'autres problèmes, encore !!
Si tu remontes les post, j'ai fait avec une toupie à bois.
Une fois que tu auras trouvé ça, faudra que tu fasse travailler l'acier de l'axe pour y mettre la meule....
Et après...et après.
Mais rien n'est impossible vu ce que tu as déjà fait sur ta première , tu y arriveras...avec du temps ( moins que mon temps car cela fait 3 ans que j'y pense)!
Je suis bien content moi aussi de trouver quelqu'un de motivé !
Tu fais parti de mes copains du how to make homemade
https://youtu.be/_BpgsUJufiw?si=WhIdPZK0B9_sjE9e
voici une autre vidéo avec mon affuteuse 3"
j'affute des matrix supreme
j'ai changé mes roulements chinois par des vrais roulements et cela coulisse beaucoup mieux
Super ,
Marc , Could You tell me which pulley you used? Maybe link ? AliExpress ?
Specially this small one
bonjour, copain d'affûtage qsior,
voici la poulie coté moteur:
https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B0CX8J5P5L?ref_=ppx_hzod_title_dt_b_fed_asin_title_0_0
et celle coté porte meule:
https://www.amazon.fr/s?k=poulie+courroie+6mm+chancs&__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=1FOQH12YCXPR1&sprefix=poulie+courroie+6mm+chancs%2Caps%2C88&ref=nb_sb_noss
je sais que la marque de la poulie coté moteur est QUARKZMAN et coté porte meule de chez CHANCS.
cela est à titre indicatif car il te faudra calculer le rapport entre les 2 poulies!!
c'est des poulies pour de la courroie ronde de 6mm et c'est super car tu fais tes propres courroies collées ou soudées à la longueur que tu veux!!
Great ,
Big thanks !!
,,Winter is coming" ;)
But I'm stuck on how to make dressing wheel.
I dream of something like this in IE
Qsior,
Where did you get this photo from?
Is it your machine? Or a friend's?
I've been looking for a grinding wheel holder for a long time, but I haven't found anything reliable, but this is a very good idea.
However, the slides under the pad holder are really unreliable. They slide on lots of small beads and don't slide very well. I think I tried everything, thinking this was the best.
Winter is coming to France too, so I'm starting sharpening again and taking the opportunity to adjust my 3" machine again!
I'll take a photo of my slides on bearings, and that's what you should do...
voici une photo
voici d'autres photos
Yes It's mine .
this is what I have done so far
Grinding wheel holder is from AliExpress .
modified by a local metalprocessing man
yes you are right about that slides under the pad . Don't slide very well .
I'm thinking of changing them to two simple bearings.
but I haven't found a nice mount for them yet
Je suis content que tu te sois lancé aussi.
Comme je t'ai dit, inspire toi de mon système de roulement pour que ça glisse super bien.
Tu n'as pas trop de vibration dans ton montage, car au début de ma conception j'en avais et toi aussi tu risques d'en avoir : il te faudra peut être rajouter des équerre autour du boîtier du moteur...
Ce qui est sûr aussi, c'est d'équilibrer la meule comme nous l'a appris kaitsu avec ces vidéos.
Le plus simple pour le dresse meule, c'est de faire aussi comme je l'ai décrit dans le post plus haut.
Bravo pour ton début de création.
Rien n'est impossible et tu y arriveras.
Au plaisir
Thank You Marc , :)
Qsior,
In my very first skate sharpening machine (IceStep 500) I used Blackstone spinners. They were easiest way to me modify the existing dressing system, but that was not stepless and spinners does have their own problems. If I look your design, most likely I would try to make something similar than in Blamaster machines. IE dressing system is a bit complex design. I am ready to help you and Marc on 3D designing, if you just share your thoughts and needs. We could try 3D printed dressibg system from Nylon Carbon filament (PA12). You know how to contact me.
https://youtu.be/YzNS9UOr264?si=cG5GjzqgusgDkgr5
This piece is quite complex to make to be perfect (metallurgically!).
I just finished a final adjustment on my model.
At first, I wanted to use the Blade Master model, but I didn't think it looked great!
The two side posts really get in the way when sliding the skates (you have to move them back each time), and it's a pain!
It's true that maybe a 3D print would be better.
I'm really happy with mine.
I'll try to take some pictures.
voici les photos de mon dresse meule
inspiré de EZ sharp
Quote from: Kaitsu on September 22, 2025, 10:26:03 PMI am ready to help you and Marc on 3D designing, if you just share your thoughts and needs. We could try 3D printed dressibg system from Nylon Carbon filament (PA12).
Kaitsu,
I am very grateful for your offer of help. Thank you very much.
For now, I've come up with something like this. What do you think?
Sometimes I feel like giving up and going to the store and buying IE. If only it were that easy here in Europe.
I have troubles to understand how this dressing system makes wheel to be convex and not concave. Maybe I am just tired from travelling, but to me it looks like the system is making hollow to the wheel and not to the blade.
If I have understood wronly how this mechanism work, do you get enough small ROH with it?
If both my concerns are not not valid, your dressing system looks quite sensive for the vibrations. If the dressing system vibrates, you will copy this vibration to the wheel.
qsior,
désolé de te dire cela , mais cela ne fonctionnera pas .
tu as perdu beaucoup de temps pour rien, comme moi j'en avais perdu en voulant utiliser le système blademaster.
je te le répète , et à mon avis le système à copier le plus simple est le ez sharpening comme je t'avais cité plus haut.
oui le plus simple est d'acheter une machine IEdger à 10 000€ ou d'occasion (mais il y en a très rarement et très loin de chez toi), c'est pour cela que je me la suis fabriqué.
je sais que kaitsu a amelioré la sienne , et moi je me l'améliore encore mais pour arriver à ce résultat il te faudra encore beaucoup de temps. (j'ai mis 1 mois complet et en passant beaucoup de nuits blanches ) .
Encore aujourd'hui , je viens d'affuter 3 paires et je suis fier de bien affuter les patins avec ma propre machine!
Maintenant, il te faut pas abandonner , mais il te faudrait ,je penses, éviter de faire les même bétises qu'on a fait ( même si je comprends que tu as nouvelles idées).
Comme le chariot: ne perds pas de temps avec les roulements chinois qui entoure les glissières (comme tu as mis pour ton porte diamant) mais , fait avec des vrais roulements qui serviront de roues ( sur des glissières quand même).
crois moi, les roulements chinois qui entoure les glissières font un trés trés mauvais travail !!
ensuite , et je sais pas si tu sais , il y a un angle à respecter pour l'angle du diamant, ce n'est pas 90°!!
au plaisir encore de t'aider...
ces glissères: oui
ces roulements :à jeter à la poubelle!
c'est ce modèle de porte meule , qui te faut faire.
mais, pareil, il te faut travailler l'acier au plus juste pour qui n'y ait pas de jeu sinon, ça fait pas de bon travail aussi!!
allez courage
Quote from: Kaitsu on October 10, 2025, 12:30:10 PMI have troubles to understand how this dressing system makes wheel to be convex and not concave. Maybe I am just tired from travelling, but to me it looks like the system is making hollow to the wheel and not to the blade.
Unfortunately, you're right, my mistake. It won't work.I have to find another way
Quote from: marc on October 12, 2025, 04:39:08 AMensuite , et je sais pas si tu sais , il y a un angle à respecter pour l'angle du diamant, ce n'est pas 90°!!
Good point Marc!
If the dressing diamond is set at exactly 90° to the grinding wheel, it will chip, wear rapidly, and cause poor wheel surface quality. The diamond must be tilted 10–15° off the perpendicular (often called relief angle or drag angle) to avoid hammering impact and to promote smooth cutting action.
Quote from: Kaitsu on October 13, 2025, 07:57:02 AMGood point Marc!
If the dressing diamond is set at exactly 90° to the grinding wheel, it will chip, wear rapidly, and cause poor wheel surface quality. The diamond must be tilted 10–15° off the perpendicular (often called relief angle or drag angle) to avoid hammering impact and to promote smooth cutting action.
Alors, moi j'ai trouvé entre 5° et 10° .
Je vais essayer de faire une moyenne entre toi et moi: 10°
Quand la meule devient petite, l'angle change!
Actually 10-15 deg. was for heavy dressing or hard wheels. 5-10 degrees for fine finishing wheels and better surface finish.
This information is from ChatGpt and not from my experiences or knowledge. Main message is that diamond dresser needs to be tilted in the direction of travel. Not in 0 angle or 90 degrees depending how want to think about the angle.
Another advice is rotate the diamond if dressing sounds noisy. Find the position where the dressing sounds most smoothes. Note that diamond tips typically has also tilt angle...especially when they wear.
Oui, de temps en temps faut tourner le diamant qui a tendance à s'aplatir...je le fais dès que je change de roh, cela devient un geste naturel.
Moi, j'ai trouvé 5/10° chez mon fournisseur de diamant, et non avec chat GPT.
Just curious - has making your own machine been worth the effort?
Quote from: Query on October 23, 2025, 01:29:31 PMJust curious - has making your own machine been worth the effort?
Oui query,
Je ne regrette en rien du tout cette aventure car , même, si j'ai passé beaucoup de temps pour la conception, je ne pouvais pas m'offrir une telle machine neuve,et c'était vraiment impossible d'en trouver une d'occasion en France.
Je n'ai pas calculé ce que cela m'a coûté exactement mais tu serais peut être étonné :
Plus proche des 500€ que des 1000€!!
Et le travail que cela fait est juste magnifique.
Tout cela est à cause de kaitsu qui n'a jamais arrêté de démontrer l'intérêt de 3" par rapport au 8".
Ma motivation est dû à ma fille qui fait du patin au niveau national en France.Mais je ne savais pas si notre patinoire allait fermée définitivement il y a 2 ans...alors quand j'ai su qu'elle allait réouvrir, je savais que j'arriverai à créer ma propre affûteuse 3".
Alors est ce que cela valait le coup:
- techniquement : OUI
-financièrement: tu l'as compris, c'est un grand OUI